CCI Caps - CCI reply regarding availability

[dpasek]

(dup)

 

[Appowner]

Sounds good, but in reality how many people is "everyone" ? Traditional muzzleloader shooters and hunter are small group and getting smaller by the day. If they never sold another cap it wouldn't affect their bottom line one bit. That's the the sad reality of it.

Which brings us to the real question, Just how many active ML shooters are there and how much do they shoot? My local gun shop carries very little ML stuff. And that shop has been there longer than I have with a good clientele. I'd say they keep enough ML supplies to support the casual hobbyist. How many more stores are like this?

The nearest Cabellas to me is some 15-20 miles away and their supply is similar to the store I described above. My BIL and I wandered around to several gun stores in Toledo one day and only found one that carried any ML supplies.

I suspect it's all a matter of perspective. We sit here on a forum that is all ML. We go to events and do our thing in a small community of all ML. We talk it every day and see the activity from deep inside looking out. Manufacturers like CCI otoh are looking at it from a global perspective, the outside in. To profit they also support modern firearms and their needs. So anyone know how many more modern firearms there are compared to ML? How many MLs get carried concealed compared to modern guns? And do they need to shut down any part of their modern cap production to use it for ML caps? Or do they have machinery dedicated to each and every type and size of cap out there?

I'm sure CCI and others have data that tells them how many caps to make to keep up more or less with demand and make a profit at the same time. And who yells the loudest when things like caps fall short? ML or Center fire?

 

[dpasek]

Don’t buy their response. I’m on several stock alert notices for #10 &11 caps, large pistol and rifle primers. So far small pistol and rifle primers are becoming available but not the large rifle primers. Large pistol primers has popped up now and then but nothing about caps. Powders are becoming available too but the prices on ALL components have doubled or tripled in pricing. Then you have the shops selling caps for $28 a tin while Academy had the caps for $9.99 a tin, common plain greed by some shops. Midway charges a hazmat fee on powders and primers plus an additional handling fee for black powder. I for one refuse to pay these unfair prices and while other bend and pay up the abuse will continue.

In my area, there is one nearby store that carries Schutzen BP. They do not currently have 4Fg, and their supply is spotty. No other brands are available locally to me. I haven't seen any high power primers at any local gun shops for the last several years. The only available primers have been at gun shows from the large ammo sellers. I just recently got a box of 1000 CCI small rifle magnum primers for $85 and they were packaged in white box for commercial reloaders. So, supplies are still short, but not as bad as in past years. No caps anywhere to be found. We need good tooling to make our own cups. I hope our friend who posted in the other thread comes through with his tooling design. Homemade non-corrosive primer comp is a viable option with the lead nitrate-hypophosphite formulations.

 

[Rebel bull]

I don’t necessarily buy that either. Primers and caps are different animals.

For those that will not spend the time to look up Ethan’s video on this, he spoke with representatives of the company. They contend that they have to change over the machines to produce caps. It is a costly ordeal and they only change over and run caps for a very limited time once per year.

Primers and caps are not the same nor are they produced the same.

You all can fight over caps all you want. There is an alternative and I don’t mean flintlocks.

sorry but until you work in the plant ......... you just don't know what your commenting on

 

[Terrier]

What you contend is true. But both times I bought caps off the shelves last year, I left at leas a couple packs for others. I guess my guilt got the best of me and personally, I still feel that’s the proper thing to do.

I’ve seen too many reports of people buying caps at stores that don’t gouge, then turning them around to resell at a gouging price, so if I see them cheap, I buy ‘em all before someone can do that.

I found several tins at a Walmart a couple times at their regular price of $5.62, and right after muzzleloader hunting season unexpectedly found a bunch more on clearance for $3.00 per tin. Snatched ‘em all. I’ve been regularly using those as donations to our club meeting auctions and as freebies to other club members. They’ve been understandably popular items.

 

[Rebel bull]

I remember a lot of people bragging a year ago about how they had managed to order a case quantity of caps. It helped with their shipping costs but had the same effect as people buying carts full of toilet paper during the pandemic.
Every one person buying a case of tins took a dozen tins off the market. I won’t argue about their current production but many of us are now in the mode of get them while you can, myself included. I didn’t need more musket caps when I visited DGW in Union City yet I bought them when they had no #10 caps at all and that triggered my “grab some extras” response. I think we have changed our buying habits when we can no longer count on picking up a tin of 100 at the gun shop. It is reflexive for me, to be sure I don’t run out.

also remember the retailer has a finite amount of sales space and they base what they stock on turnover the more turns the more profitplane and simple

 

[purduephotog]

as I have stated here before caps are only produced if and when there is a break in the need/orders chain for primers. as a retiree from a part of the Vista Outdoors group ( parent company of CCI and Remington Ammunition ) I know this is a fact! The cure for this is to order/buy more when they are available if there is a case (10 tins) on the shelf/hook buy em all, if there is 2 3 4 cases on the shelf buy em all. retailers stock their shelves with what has the fastest turnover, if it takes a year to sell 10 tins then they aren't going to order enough often enough to create a demand for greater production! this is the same for everything doesn't matter what it is. Don't believe me ask Kibler if he would produce a single kit if he wasn't in a constant state of back order !

Totally would agree here. I used to work production of lot chemicals and we'd make one of each time (To coincide with JIT) and if we had unexpected down time, and had the precursors on hand (which when making 2000 gallon lots is a LOT of material), we'd schedule those tanks. You don't make money with stuff sitting idle, and you don't make a cheaper product when you can make a more profitable one.

Now what would be interesting to see is the actual production process. I'd guess for musket caps with the little flared flowers it would be a 4 or 5 set stamping process- whether or not they'd separate from the band for the introduction of the primer reagent and sealing, or if they'd leave them loose and vibe them into the machine, I don't know. But I imagine this is something a small machine shop could do fairly easy.
Just a market, like anything. ANd someone with more $$$ than sense to fund it

 

[The Appalachian]

Which brings us to the real question, Just how many active ML shooters are there and how much do they shoot?

And an observation about the answer to that real question. I think that those who are and do, live in a bubble and do not realize how small that bubble is. Traditional muzzleloading just isn't what it used to be. Sad, but true. We are last of a dying breed.

 

[R Ellis]

Baloney. Look up ammoseek.com. Prices have come down, too. Caps? Plenty of RWS and Schuetzen available as posted on this forum numerous times. But, they're non-corrosive if that's a concern. Good grief you guys.

Just looked at the website and they only have musket caps and kind of high priced seems to me

 

[springfield art]

No "factory made" caps will spell the eventual demise of Pietta, Uberti. etc. I doubt that there are many first time buyers who will have the where-with-al to make their own caps. That goes for casual cap and ball users also. Just a thought.

Hadn't thought of that. I know .410 shotguns are slow movers because .410 ammo is really expensive! Those modern revolvers shooting it took up a lot of demand.

 

[CaptainVane]

So, I am sitting here thinking. There are sooooo many posts on soooo many threads about caps not fitting nipples. Makes me wonder, way back when was this an issue?
I mean, John Henry in his dusty western town needs caps because Dastardly Dan has called him out for a high noon street meet, and now he cant find caps to fit his revolver(s). So he rides to next town and told he needs to change the nipples to aftermarket ones. I can’t imagine it was always like this.
Did Wild Bill telegraph back east and have some guy from Pony Express show up in Deadwood with a package of caps?
When the hell did it all go wrong?

 

[smokepolehall]

Don't have that answer. I just checked Graf & sons. No caps or musket winged caps. They jacked up my powder by $7 a pound, it's now $39 a pound

 

[ETipp]

I’ve seen too many reports of people buying caps at stores that don’t gouge, then turning them around to resell at a gouging price, so if I see them cheap, I buy ‘em all before someone can do that.

I found several tins at a Walmart a couple times at their regular price of $5.62, and right after muzzleloader hunting season unexpectedly found a bunch more on clearance for $3.00 per tin. Snatched ‘em all. I’ve been regularly using those as donations to our club meeting auctions and as freebies to other club members. They’ve been understandably popular items.

That is true, however, this ole boy will still leave a few for others as long as I have what I need. And real soon, if things go as planned, I couldn’t care less about store bought caps. I’ll be making my own so you all can fight and argue all you want over this conundrum.

 

[Moasf]

I emailed CCI yesterday asking if caps are being produced and why caps cannot be found anywhere. I don't buy the response but the following is the reply from CCI technical services.

"We are currently producing and shipping millions of primers and caps a day. With the current market we are in it is very difficult for distributors and dealers to keep them on the shelves. Our products are sent directly from the plant to distributors. Where it is then sold to retailers and then to you. We have no way of tracking who has it or when they will receive it in stock."

Millions a day kind of cracks me up, just don't see it.

Cant find any either.

 

[BruceS]

If I find caps at Wallyworld I buy them all. Keeps the resellers from buying them and then gouging at gun shows. Last shoot I attended I gave 10 tins of caps to shooters that needed them. Traded 4 tins to a shooter for wads for my shotgun at less than I paid for them. I am just trying to help others to keep shooting.

 

[#blackpowderbill]

As Chief Two Moons said:
Many Many Many Moons ago- When Slick Willie was in office the idea of numbering bullets arose.

I said Bill you need to move into suppository's reloading. I had already been loading shot shells wen I was in the Navy.

Purchased a big Lyman kit. bought 3 dies sets-357/38, 30/40 and 30/30.
Moving forward around 15-20 years back I had over 100 moulds and a press for 12-20-28-410

6 suppository press set up and buku components-

Every 22 shortage, I had plenty-each trip to china mart would mean a swing into the sporting goods dept.
The last Dope N Chains deal-I had 3 cases

I don't need & the want is strong.

 

[springfield art]

Considering the number of replies to any "cap" mentions, it certainly is a subject of concern, ongoing!

 

[2 shots]

They will make a run at flints next.

flint mines will be taken over by the government. its true.........

 

[Terrier]

flint mines will be taken over by the government. its true.........

 

[#blackpowderbill]

Any time I find something I got from waybackwhen that still has the pricetag on it, I don't know whether to chuckle or cuss. I was in a store yesterday to get a pound of modern powder, what I paid 45 bucks for a year ago is now 65. Hope the cost increases meant the folks working there to actually make it got a raise, but me thinks probably not. I'll just suck it up I guess, cause a damn sure ain't gonna take up golf as a hobby instead of shooting

Hodgson had another price increase in January. Avg hike was 20%.
My cost on powder is 38$ to 53$.

In 2022+23 I have around 200# powder shipped in.
Everyone wanted powder until it was here. Their excuses were.
I'll wait for primers
Price is to high powder valley has it for xyz. LOL yea they didn't out of stock.
SO,
I sold 168 pounds to the gun club.
I'll not order powder , components for anyone until I see Ben Franklin.