Advice for period appropriate build

[Pmringer]

I am going to be starting my first kit after the first of the year. I like southern mountain rifles but they are too late for the periods I want the rifle to work for. I intend to do period hunts with this and educational programs from 1755 on through the early 1800s.

That being said my impression is primarily that of a frontier mountain colonist and hunter. Military will be militia/rifleman if I do it. I am a fan of southern style rifles and big bore. I am heavily leaning toward Chambers Virginia Rifle kit for this first build. Am I on the right track or should I consider some PA styles? I want something that would have been found throughout the Appalachians.

My personal preferences are toward the utilitarian side. Limited to no carving and no excessive brass.

 

[Black Hand]

That being said my impression is primarily that of a frontier mountain colonist and hunter.

Your most like firearm would be a smoothbore/Trade gun...

 

[Pmringer]

Already have a smoothbore. Specifically wanting to build a rifle. I've taken small and large game with my smoothbore, just want to try something different.

 

[okawbow]

I think there were plenty rifles in N.C. In the late colonial, revolutionary, and early Federal periods.

Lots of long hunters used rifles to kill deer for the hides.

The earliest rifles might have looked like the rifles made in Pennsylvania, with brass furniture. There is a lot of difference in an early N.C. Rifle and an 1800 one.

Look for books on N.C. Rifles by Dennis Glazener.

 

[Bo T]

You can always put a rifled barrel on a trade gun build.

 

[Black Hand]

My personal preferences are toward the utilitarian side. Limited to no carving and no excessive brass.

There is a certain amount of carving (tang, sideplate and lock mortise) normally/usually present on most rifles of the period. Many/all rifles of the period had brass thimbles/entry, triggerguard and butt-plate. I suggest looking at Shumway's excellent books and their many photographs of originals (dates or presumptive dates are included). Do your research first before buying materials.

 

[Pmringer]

I appreciate the information thus far and will explore some of these other resources. Generally speaking since I can't dig into resources right now would early VA or early PA rifles have been more widespread up and down the Appalachians pre-revolutionary war?

 

[Black Hand]

...would early VA or early PA rifles have been more widespread up and down the Appalachians pre-revolutionary war?

I don't have enough knowledge of that specific area to answer the question for you. Perhaps others with more information will be able to assist.

 

[rich pierce]

When it comes to pre-Revolutionary rifles we don't have that many that can be attributed to the South compared to Pennsylvania. There were a lot more made in Pennsylvania. The Chambers Virginia kit is a great choice for you. There were only a few places where enough rifles were made early on to define "schools" or specific styles that can locate a rifle to an area where it was made. We have surviving pre-Revolutionary rifles from the Christians Spring shop near Bethlehem as well as Reading, Lancaster, and York Pennsylvania. Other early rifles such as the Faber rifle, the tulip rifle, etc are harder to locate. There are a handful of pretty solidly attributed early Virginia rifles but they vary pretty widely in style. However that should not impede you in building an early rifle as they all share common characteristics. A wide, tall butt plate with little to no curvature, swamped barrels of medium to large caliber, and early locks. The plainer you build it, the easier it is to have it be a generic early rifle that could have been made most anywhere. There are a dozen or more such rifles in Rifles of Colonial America volumes 1 and 2, and a good many more that have come to light since those books were published.

 

[Crewdawg445]

Make it easy on yourself... Smoothbore rifle like a trade gun or fusil.

 

[rich pierce]

Little evidence of smooth rifles (rifle-built guns with smooth bores) in the South. Early Southern guns were rifles or muskets or trade gun smooth bores or fowling pieces. The smooth rifle appears to be localized to eastern Pennsylvania. I don't know of a single example of an early Southern rifle-built gun with a smooth bore, but hundreds from eastern PA.

 

[54ball]

My main period of interest is early Southern Rifles 1780-1820. Lately I have been focusing on rifles from around 1790ish. These are pretty much the link between the Penn styles and the later Mountain styles. Right now I'm building up my version of a steptoe rifle from the Valley of Virginia and points to the South and West. It's going to be trimmed in brass and the pattern was taken from an original circa-1800.

The study of this period and region is very convoluted. Most of what you get on the forums and even books is a general history of a very complicated subject. With that general history are general rules or description of traits as these rifles develop through time. As you study or focus in on a specific region or school you'll find a lot of the general history does not specifically apply to the rifle families you study....Clear as Mud? :idunno:

You're in luck for this particular project. Period accounts from SW VA, VA and Carolina Back Country, and what became Tennessee are filled with accounts of DEEKER, DECKARD and DITCHARD Rifles. These are obvious references to the Lancaster maker JACOB DICKERT. Likely he was the most prolific of the Lancaster Makers.
History of Jacob Dickert

So IMHO a Lancaster styled rifle is likely what was toted by these early trailblazers into this region and don't forget the Indians, they loved rifles and were the true masters of the Deerskin Trade and thus the Longhunt...

It was not until there was some measure of safety and long term settlement that you see frontier rifles built in the Old West (18th Century) or Southwest. For some areas this could be as early as the 1770s (Watauga and the Moravians of NC) but most were post Rev War(The Cumberland SW VA, and Kentucky).

Riflemen of the Cumberland

Kentucky's Humble Gunsmiths

In closing I think the Chambers
Lancaster
York
Haines
Virginia
Edward Marshall
Jaeger
English Sporting
All would be great build for you and your purposes.
Later as you do more research and gain skill, you can attempt a more region specific rifle that's not offered in a parts set.

 

[Artificer]

In 1751, The Geddy Brothers advertised in The Virginia Gazette that they did the gunsmithing service of rifling barrels, but they did not actually make rifles in Williamsburg,VA. No documented rifle has ever come to light that was made there.

As many times as I have read that advertisement from the Virginia Gazette, I have to admit I'm not sure if they meant 1. They "refreshed/freshened up" the rifling in previously rifled guns (pretty common maintenance job during the period) or 2. They rifled smooth barrels or 3. They did both.

The only documented reference to a rifle in Virginia of the early 1750's I know of, that could be identified was from the estate of Lt. Col. Phillip Ludwell Lee of Stratford,

"Col. Phil also enjoyed hunting. The inventory of his possessions included “1 Rifle new made by Turvey” and “1 new Turvey,” as well as a fowling piece and a gun.57 The rifle and unspecified firearm were probably made by gunsmith William Turvey (II) of London. Most Virginia planters purchased locally-made rifles, but Col. Phil had sent to London to acquire one of the best rifles available at the time. Much more accurate than those made in the colonies, this rifle was used for recreational game hunting and target matches. Turvey rifles were elegant, artistic pieces, and an obvious status symbol in the colonies.58"
http://www.stratfordhall.org/colle...e-revolution-philip-ludwell-lee-of-stratford/

The "problem" with this while the Chambers English Sporting Rifle is probably a good reproduction of a "Turvey Rifle," such rifles were really the guns of the affluent. Some less fancy English "Games Keeper" quality rifles, made along those lines, may have been imported, but we don't have documentation.

Finding a rifle that could be identified as being used in NC in the earliest date you mentioned would be very difficult to document.

Gus

 

[excess650]

Bethabara was the Moravian settlement in Salem, NC. IIRC, by 1762(?) one of the 'smiths from Christian Springs traveled down there on the wagon road. A Christian Springs styled rifle wouldn't be incorrect, IMO.

do a 'net search of Bethabara NC gunsmiths and you'll find some good info.

 

[54ball]

Gus,
While not North Carolina, I do believe the following is from the Bakeless Boone biography and probably from the Draper Papers or Boone family tradition.

" Daniel Boone's boyhood rifle was a English short rifle."

This was when the Boones were amongst the Pennsylvania Society of Friends....Quakers. This was before the Boones were apparently shunned for the remarkably quick pregnancy of Boone's sister after marriage. After the 7 years War we find some of the Boones in Yadkin NC.

Any rifle before the 1760s really 1770 is difficult to document. I believe Spence has some period data concerning rifled barrels being imported into Boston in the 1720s.

In the Dickert link there is some info on European rifles being imported and repaired by American Gunsmiths in the 1750s and before. It is interesting in that these European made rifles appeared to have longer barrels preferred by the American market.

Since the rise of the Hanoverians in England, whats German and what's English?

As far as guns of the affluent, A rifle in Colonial America was a tool of the middling class. I equate them to like a Backhoe or Trackhoe today. A man who owns one for hobby farm work is what I would consider rich but a man who owns one and makes a living off one is anything but rich. But, he still had to have the capitol to get started.

IMHO riflemen, longhunters or land speculators like Boone were at least middling class.

 

[Artificer]

Gus,
While not North Carolina, I do believe the following is from the Bakeless Boone biography and probably from the Draper Papers or Boone family tradition.

" Daniel Boone's boyhood rifle was a English short rifle."

This was when the Boones were amongst the Pennsylvania Society of Friends....Quakers. This was before the Boones were apparently shunned for the remarkably quick pregnancy of Boone's sister after marriage. After the 7 years War we find some of the Boones in Yadkin NC.

WOW, the quote above is extremely interesting and downright mind boggling that a short English rifle is documented that early in PA. I looked up "My Father, Daniel Boone: The Draper Interviews with Nathan Boone" in the link below and did not find it in the 1st Section "His Early Life." https://books.google.com/books?id=IuFfHh0r9OcC&q=english+rifle#v=snippet&q=english rifle&f=false

However, I did find out two extremely interesting things I did not know.

The below quote is about Daniel Boone and seems to show at least an age when a boy might expect to get a gun. However, it doesn't mention what type of gun.

"When he was twelve or thirteen, his father bought him a gun, and he became a good marksman. The only problem was he often neglected his herding duties to hunt, but this experience gave him his love of woods and hunting."

However, there is another gold mine of information both on Daniel Boone and on the name of an Early Augusta County VA gunsmith.

Page 13 talks about when the Boone’s lived on Linville Creek in Augusta County Virginia between 1750 and 1752. Daniel Boone’s Father employed a Henry Miller to work for him as a blacksmith and gunsmith and also teach the trade to Daniel. Now Henry did not go to NC with the Boone's, but we now know where Daniel got some Gunsmith training that is alluded to at other times. Also, we have the name of a Gunsmith in VA who may have been making rifles before or during that time. Something else to investigate.

I would really LOVE to know where the quote on the short English rifle came from.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

I don't have a 1720 quote about bringing German rifles or rifle barrels into PA, but here is one almost that old about Caspar Wistar.

"In 1730 Wistar established a trade connection with Georg Friedrich Hölzer, a family friend in the Palatinate. He ordered goods from Germany, which were then transported by German immigrants in their personal belongings in order to avoid British duties and then sold in his shop in Philadelphia. Using the immigrant transportation system for illicit trade was quite common among non-British immigrants at the time since the restrictions and duties imposed by the Navigation Acts were prohibitive. Although nowhere near as profitable as his land speculation, Wistar’s trade in imported commodities from the Rhine and Neckar Valleys represented an important step in his entrepreneurial and personal affairs. Establishing himself as the main supplier in an emerging market, he was able to furnish his fellow immigrants with specialized services since the items he imported (knives, scissors, needles, brass and iron goods, copper kettles, mirrors, eyeglasses, tobacco pipes, ivory combs, lace, and custom-made rifles) were not readily available in the colonies at the time. He only ordered high quality items and managed to attain market dominance in rifles by making sure his source in Germany was kept secret."
http://immigrantentrepreneurship.org/entry.php?rec=1

Now that source does not talk about him importing long rifle barrels, but another sourcc I have somewhere talks about how he did, because the longer barrels were what were preferred then, locally in Philadelphia and other customers. Since Wistar died in 1752, the guns and barrels he imported were quite early.

Gus

 

[54ball]

Some discussion...

His first rifle was given to him as a child when he lived near Reading, PA and is described as a "short rifle". He had a relative in Philly who was a gunsmith--no doubt English trained, as the family emigrated from Great Britain. This event was in the mid 1740s and I have long thought that his first rifle may have looked much like the English short rifle offered by Chambers or pictured in Shumways RCA.

Daniel acquired his first rifle, a short-barreled piece, when he was twelve or thirteen. He quickly became a crack marksman, keeping the family supplied with game and wandering the forests and mountains for increasingly longer periods.

This too may be from Bakeless.

Then again, in 1747, when Daniel was thirteen, Daniel's older brother married a "non-Quaker". Squire Boone and the whole family were expelled from the Quaker community in Pennsylvania. At the age of ten, Daniel Boone loved to hunt and kill small game, such as birds and squirrels. When he was thirteen, his father gave him his first rifle, which was a "short rifle-gun".

Sources.. encyclopedias and more recent Boone Bios
At face value Boone might have had the Short Rifle in North Carolina.

When Daniel was almost thirteen he was given his first firearm, a “short rifle gun” with which he roamed the nearby Flying Hills, the Oley Hills, and the Neversink Mountains. The Flying Hills were named for the flocks of turkeys that lived there. The rifle was probably made by Squire Boone, who, besides keeping six looms busy with hired hands, farming, and running his blacksmith shop and mill, was also a gunsmith. His skill at making and repairing guns was passed down to his fourth son. It would be an essential, lifesaving skill in later years, in the wilderness beyond the mountains.

As a blacksmith Squire Boone had taken an apprentice named Henry Miller, two or three years older than Daniel. Henry and Daniel
soon got into a fistfight, and then, as often happens with those who begin by fighting, they became lifelong friends. Henry taught Daniel blacksmithing and gunsmithing, as he learned the skills himself. Together they hunted and fished and played pranks on neighbors and on other members of the Boone family.

We are fortunate to have such a personality as Boone. In a very indirect way, the lore of such a personality may shed light on the history of the American Longrifle in a very indirect way.

Taken at face value, the elephant in the room is the possibility of at least a few Colonial gunsmiths in the 1740s building rifles in the English rather than the German tradition.

Again I think the question comes up...How much did the Hanoverians influence 18th Century English material culture. Also could the rifle be more English than commonly accepted?

Wallace Gusler was once asked, Whats the most accurate history of the development of the American Longrifle. His reply...

"There's not one."

 

[excess650]

"Taken at face value, the elephant in the room is the possibility of at least a few Colonial gunsmiths in the 1740s building rifles in the English rather than the German tradition."

Considering that the English had colonized starting in 1585 (Roanoke), long before the Germans and Swiss began to emigrate, it would seem logical that someone with gun making skills would be present to make repairs if not more.

Samuel and Robert Baker (brothers) had a gunshop at the confluence of Pequea Creek and Susquehanna River in 1717. That was Chester County but became Lancaster County in 1729. Robert's estate inventory of 1728 included tools for gun barrel boring and gun shop.

 

[excess650]

I'm finding a John Henry (gunsmith) emigrated from Scotland in 1722 and died in 1747. I'm unsure of his year of birth, but he was old enough to have son William Henry apprentice with Matthias Roesser in 1744 at the age of 15.