1851 Navy or 1861 Navy?

[George T.]

Dixie is a great place to deal with as well. Midway would have ripped you off on shipping as well. Dixie and TOW have great shipping charges and ship at least as fast as midway! Graff and sons are great also! Geo. T.

 

[dickydalton]

It's not Midway's fault you live in Mass. They apparently have a problem with the lawmakers you people keep electing. :idunno:

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Mr Dalton, I understand your point. But something is very strange. Why do some vendors recognize this as "law" and others ignore it completely? The responsibility is mine to look further into this, and I will.

At first I thought the only people ignoring it were small vendors, but with my recent purchases at DIXIE I have to think differently. They are arguably as big as Midway, at least category wise. Yet they don't recognize it.

I found it interesting that DIXIE stated in bold type that the firearm "cannot be shipped to Canada or New Jersey." Are they just behind the times and have no knowledge of Massachusetts policy?

As I said, it is strange. I have to wonder if this policy is, in fact, a LAW etched in stone. As I also said, the responsibility is on me to find out the hard facts.

 

[rodwha]

Are the grips the same on the '51 and '61 originals and repros?

Is the loading lever design really any better on the '61? I've read good and bad...

 

They are arguably as big as Midway, at least category wise.

They are absolutely not as big as Midway. Midway was much bigger than Dixie 20yrs ago. Much less now. DGW probably 20 employees at the most. I've been to their shop numerous times and it is no bigger than a good sized restaurant.

As I also said, the responsibility is on me to find out the hard facts.

Midway undoubtedly carries a lot of stuff that can't be shipped there. They probably don't think it's worth the effort to keep up with all your laws. You should be angry with your representatives and fellow statesmen for creating this situation, not Midway.

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Well, YES, I am certainly incensed by the elected officials in my home state, but that's nothing new. Don't foget the Massaachusetts Royalty family, the Kennedys, are directly responsible for the atrocious immigration situation we have as well as the creation of the American Welfare State.

So of course I'm aware that full blame rests on the officials elected to office for any and all laws/edicts and such that are made.

My angered quandry really lies in trying to understand why some vendors will happily ship certain items to Massachusetts and others won't.

As I mentioned in another post, I really have to investigate further as to the status of this policy, whether it's a definite law or not. It might be simply a situation where a vendor is so aware of the strong left leanings of the state that it makes them leery to have anything to do with shipping their firearms here because they can envision a situation where they are caught as the bad guys who supplied the gear that enabled someone to flip out and use them in a horrible crime. Being proactive, as corporate America would say. Sounds nutty, I know, but so does the situation.

I have a little digging to do.

 

[dickydalton]

The problem is that states Like California, New York/Jersey and Mass. like to make laws that are undecipherable and deceiving. Some companies won't take the chance that they will miss a comma somewhere and end up with a huge fine and/or legal bill. I don't blame them a bit. :idunno:

 

[Marc Adamchek]

After researching this for a couple hours today, until my eyes burned and my sciatica screamed I can say I think you hit the nail squarely on the head.

It's a mish-mash which invites questions that go unanswered anywhere in the documents. I can't imagine all this getting any clearer in the post-Newtown days.

 

[Shoeless]

The 1861s use the creeping loading lever and round barrel as the 1860 Armies.The big plus of an 1861 over the 1851 is the redesign of the rear of the frame that limits cap jams. This design came with the improvement on the 1860s........

 

[Shoeless]

You can also try Ables Ammo. Their prices are the lowest but the highest shipping as they only use 2nd day UPS. They don't stock anything but it usually only takes a week to get......

 

[rodwha]

"The big plus of an 1861 over the 1851 is the redesign of the rear of the frame that limits cap jams."

I'm curious now about what was done and how he came about this.

 

[Shoeless]

The channel in the rear of the frame near where a loading gate would be is cut lower keeping the cap fragment from jamming between the cylinder and rear of the frame. The 1860/61s will just drop the fragmented cap out of the capping cutout.....

 

[nkbj]

The '61 has a better design for compressing conicals into the chambers also. In the late '70s I drilled out a Lee 9mm round nose mold with a 3/8" drill bit to make a .36 conical and took advantage of the camming the 1861 offers. The power and accuracy made it great for gongs.

 

[Zonie]

Just a thought about the Colt creeping lever on the repro's and the increased force needed to load conicals.

The holes on the bottom of the barrel are not case hardened and more than a few of our members over the years have managed to rip the metal out of the areas between the holes with the toothed loading lever.

I'm not saying this is common but it has been done and usually the cause was loading elongated bullets.

Because of this, I'll stick to loading lead roundballs with their short shear lengths.

 

[M. De Land]

Good to know Zonie, I hadn't considered the difference in hardness of the barrel steel. I did once have to weld up and re-file the knobs on a brass framed 51 loading lever for a friend that stripped them off.On this gun the the barrel won but that wasn't saying much for the case on the lever.
I suspect fit is more critical in this set than in the 61 to eliminate failure of either part.MD

 

[rodwha]

Kaido makes a 140 grn RNFP conical for the .36, and he sent me a few to try out one day, but quite frankly I'm not sure what good they are. They are also a little hard (7-11 BH).

Hunting is what they were designed for, and I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting medium game with them unless I was standing over them. That's what I have an Old Army for...