.45 Caliber: Deer?

I have killed a number of deer with a .445 ball and 70gr of 3F, I shot a little back of the shoulder through the lungs to keep from messing up any shoulder meat. Every deer I shot this way ran about 50-75 yards and left a marginal but followable blood trail, usually the ball was under the skin on the far side. All of my shots were less than 40 yards.

Smokey Plainsman said:

If legal in your state, do you consider the .45 caliber round ball suitable for taking a deer?

Thanks,

-Smokey

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YES.... I consider the .390 round ball from a .40 is just fine out to 70 yards with my load.

ALL round ball could be inadequate if too low a powder charge was used, eh?

LD

This bullet is the 408 grain RCBS 11mm rifle bullet patched and sized to fit my barrels.
It uses 80 grains of pyrodex P with an over powder wad. This load is 1450 FPS. It meets or exceeds the original load for the 45-70 trap door rifle.
This bullet was shot by my son. The buck was quartering hard away from him at a little over 100 yards. The bullet entered behind the last rib. It plowed forward through the lungs and forward to the skin then stayed under the skin and stopped under the skin at the Deer's jaw. The deer was dumped instantly.
There is a huge difference between a 45 PRB and a conical.

From my own experience as a boy i killed deer with my .410 n slugs. With it i kept my shots 50 yds n less. .45 ML has more power & energy. If you think a shot is too far then it is. If you feel strongly you can make the shot you can.

Use to shoot deer in the head when I was younger. Always figured all or nothing right...? Then one time I learned a hard lesson. I shot part of the nose an jaw off. After a long an not good blood trail. I finally got to finish the buck off. It was a hard lesson learned. Now I only shoot if I have a double lung shot. But to each their own.

Rebel bull said:

I cannot believe how many normally sane people are convinced that the only proper shot is to try and drive a projectile through the shoulder of a animal ! I don't care which wiz-bang your shooting no projectile is made that will repeatedly put a hole through the shoulder blade I have personally witnessed a 300 win mag fail to penetrate on more then 1 occasion and more then one of the larger calibers also. but every year its the same thing "I wanted to knock it down so it couldn't go anywhere" in other words I'm to lazy to practice shot placement and can't track worth a damn . If you put it right next to the point of the elbow and don't chase it right away it won't go far! Don't take your eyes off of it until it drops or you can't see it any longer . Reload and wait a half hour minimum your deer will be laying there.

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I don't know about the areas you hunt but here in Idaho. If you hit a big game animal and it runs onto private land, you lost that animal. Even going to the Fish and Game will not get the animal back. Since many of our big game animals travel to farm lands to feed. Dealing with the possibility of your deer or elk getting back on private land is very real. Another very real possibility in the mountains is a wounded elk heading into an area that makes that animal much harder to pack out. I've seen that way too many times.

When faced with the possibility of an elk going to private land or getting into a bad spot, I always go for a shoulder. I have shot 23 head of elk. I would say more than half were shoulder shots. None ever stayed on their feet with a properly placed shoulder shot with a good bullet.

In these pictures I show my 458 grain paper patched Lee 500S&W bullet paper patched and sized to fit my barrels. This bullet is slightly hardened to between 6 and 7 BHN.

This bull was one of only two elk seen on this month long hunt. This bull was only a few yards of private land. A double lung shot would have most likely been a lost animal.
I set my sight for the shot and took a high shoulder shot. The elk was dropped in his tracks.The bullet plowed through the shoulder took out the spine and was found under the skin on the far side. The bullet still weighed 454 grains.

A person has to know their rifle and load combination. Knowing the animal being hunted and what might happen after the shot is important too.

S.Kenton said:

I agree with that whole statement. However, it’s up to any newcomer to learn thier firearm and to keep the shots within its limited range. I’m an avid bow hunter, so I keep my shots as close as possible, I do the same when I’m hunting with my BP rifle. The longest shot I’ve ever taken was around 100 yards, but I practiced that shot for months prior, I doubt I’d ever take a long shot like that again unless I was confident I could ethically kill the animal. Paper targets are valuable and cheep resource, I use old pizza boxes, but one can really learn about your rifle and even your own limitations by target shooting. I’m fortunate to have my own backyard range, when’s the weathers nice I’m out there quite a lot. I stand by my original statement that 45 is large enough for deer, it’s all about shot placement and practice, practice practice!

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Your last sentence in your post is what I am talking about. Some one like yourself that has a lot of practice and knows his rifle as you do is a whole different matter. Were are talking about a ball as I mentioned before ,change to a conical and it is a different story alltogether. When a broad statement is made a beginner may go to his local Walmart get a bottom of the line M.L. and think he is ready to go?
There are some farmers in my area that use a .22 rim fire cartridge but that is not for me. The farmers are allowed to kill deer that are messing up their crops. At night they can get real close to the deer and the lights blind the deer and cause them to hang around and not run like they do during the day.

LME said:

The way the question was asked might lead a novice to think it is fine at any range. Knowing a rifles limitations is important. I don't think a person new to the sport would know what the limits are? If a .45 conical is used its a whole different situation. I just think a ball doesn't have enough oomph to try a shot 100 yards on an animal for most hunters! Now don't try to confuse me with the facts! My mind is made up! LOL!

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Idaho Ron said:

I don't know about the areas you hunt but here in Idaho. If you hit a big game animal and it runs onto private land, you lost that animal. Even going to the Fish and Game will not get the animal back. Since many of our big game animals travel to farm lands to feed. Dealing with the possibility of your deer or elk getting back on private land is very real. Another very real possibility in the mountains is a wounded elk heading into an area that makes that animal much harder to pack out. I've seen that way too many times.

When faced with the possibility of an elk going to private land or getting into a bad spot, I always go for a shoulder. I have shot 23 head of elk. I would say more than half were shoulder shots. None ever stayed on their feet with a properly placed shoulder shot with a good bullet.

In these pictures I show my 458 grain paper patched Lee 500S&W bullet paper patched and sized to fit my barrels. This bullet is slightly hardened to between 6 and 7 BHN.

This bull was one of only two elk seen on this month long hunt. This bull was only a few yards of private land. A double lung shot would have most likely been a lost animal.
I set my sight for the shot and took a high shoulder shot. The elk was dropped in his tracks.The bullet plowed through the shoulder took out the spine and was found under the skin on the far side. The bullet still weighed 454 grains.

A person has to know their rifle and load combination. Knowing the animal being hunted and what might happen after the shot is important too.

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Obviously 45 conicals are my first choice for killing anything with a muzzleloader…. But 45 cal round balls are a 50yd prospect on deer.

S.Kenton said:

I agree with that whole statement. However, it’s up to any newcomer to learn thier firearm and to keep the shots within its limited range. I’m an avid bow hunter, so I keep my shots as close as possible, I do the same when I’m hunting with my BP rifle. The longest shot I’ve ever taken was around 100 yards, but I practiced that shot for months prior, I doubt I’d ever take a long shot like that again unless I was confident I could ethically kill the animal. Paper targets are valuable and cheep resource, I use old pizza boxes, but one can really learn about your rifle and even your own limitations by target shooting. I’m fortunate to have my own backyard range, when’s the weathers nice I’m out there quite a lot. I stand by my original statement that 45 is large enough for deer, it’s all about shot placement and practice, practice practice!

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I agree, practice is important and inexpensive. I quit taking head shots after I saw a deer missing her lower jaw that died of starvation. Ethically killing the dear is important and wounding one to die later and far away is something I don’t risk anymore.
I go for neck shots because I either kill it or miss it cleanly. The shock of the ball hitting breaks the neck even if not dead on. The jugular and critical arteries are also there if a shot hits too low. That soft lead does a lot of damage to the neck but spares the rest of the meat.

LME said:

Your last sentence in your post is what I am talking about. Some one like yourself that has a lot of practice and knows his rifle as you do is a whole different matter. Were are talking about a ball as I mentioned before ,change to a conical and it is a different story alltogether. When a broad statement is made a beginner may go to his local Walmart get a bottom of the line M.L. and think he is ready to go?
There are some farmers in my area that use a .22 rim fire cartridge but that is not for me. The farmers are allowed to kill deer that are messing up their crops. At night they can get real close to the deer and the lights blind the deer and cause them to hang around and not run like they do during the day.

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Yes, but it’s up to him to practice, an ethical hunter will know the limits of the hunting implement being used. Whether that’s a conical or roundball doesn’t matter, he must know how the implement will react when he pulls the trigger or releases the arrow into flight. He has to know its limitations as well as his own. When I was teaching Hunters Ed years ago that same question came up many times. I no longer teach hunters Ed, but my answer still stays the same. Practice in whatever your legally allowed to take game with as often as you can, know the limits of your hunting tool, as well as your own limits and you’ll do just fine.

For a time, all I had were a CVA .45 Kentucky percussion rifle and a modern pump shotgun. I took many whitetail deer with that CVA with both RB and maxi balls which I ordered from DGW and at that time they came in a cloth bag. At ranges under 100 yards. I did wound one but there was snow so I got it. I did make one exceptional shot which was close to 200 yards but only once. A story in itself.

Eric Krewson said:

I have killed a number of deer with a .445 ball and 70gr of 3F, I shot a little back of the shoulder through the lungs to keep from messing up any shoulder meat. Every deer I shot this way ran about 50-75 yards and left a marginal but followable blood trail, usually the ball was under the skin on the far side. All of my shots were less than 40 yards.

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I still don't know why the ball needs to go all the way through. If it goes through the hide then in to the heart or lungs it is dead. It may run a for a distance, but few deer don't run some when shot. Friend of mine shot a buck that was walking fast, then ran about100 yards ,there was no heart left. To me a hole on the other side is just a nother hole

Idaho Ron said:

You are saying a 45 shooting a PRB has more take down power than a 45-70?

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Nope. I said a 45 hole is a 45 hole. 45-70 pokes a hole with hard cast and a round ball pokes a hole of the same size. The round ball probably will expand more. Didn’t say it was the same or anything close. A 45 roundball at 1500-1700 fps will poke a nice hole in a deer at under 100 yards. I guess the way I wrote that was quite dumb lol.

Idaho Ron said:

You are saying a 45 shooting a PRB has more take down power than a 45-70?

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That’s not what I interpreted from that at
All what he was saying is that
It’s poking the same size hole and is completely adequate for the job I have killed several deer at fifty yds or less with a 22lr it’s all about shot placement and a 45 is more than adequate for the job if who ever is pulling the trigger is capable of doing theirs

I hunt out of ground blinds and out of a tree stand at times, being an old bow hunter, I like two holes, one in and one out. more holes more blood trail. I hunt in the evenings and track deer in the dark more often than not, deer running off at dusk leak more blood with two holes.

You never know what to expect after a shot, I may hear them fall and I may not, I may have a blood trail right off or I may only see the blood start 50 yards down the trail. I double lunged a 6 point at 10 yards with my .54 last year, I blew a hole in and out, double lung. He ran off like nothing happened, I never heard him fall and only found one drop of blood between where I shot him and where I found him dead 50 yards away.

THE STORY OF A 45 LONGRIFLE ----- Shot a buck with a 45 flinter years ago. PRB. 50 yards. The only clear shot was his neck. He ran through a dusting of snow. Blood trail showed he was squirting copious amounts of blood on both sides of his neck Lost him on the sunny side of the ridge. He had gone more than a hundred yards. Only deer I never recovered. I learned two things: don't shoot a deer through the neck, and use a bigger bore. Beautiful gun. Hand made for me, mounted in silver with an 1811 silver coin in the stock. A dollar I think. In the 1980s when finished, custom guns didn't cost so much. Anyway I traded it for a new Colt Python AND a new Colt Gold Cup to a gun dealer who wanted it badly but who didn't keep it. Then bought a .50 Chambers early Lancaster kit assembled by the same builder. Still, I like 45s for smaller animals. I saw that rifle many years later at a gun show. pristine condition. The young owner was carry it through the isles showing it to vendors and shoppers. After that I never saw it again but often hope it is resting over someone's fireplace.

johnraleksa said:

I still don't know why the ball needs to go all the way through. If it goes through the hide then in to the heart or lungs it is dead. It may run a for a distance, but few deer don't run some when shot. Friend of mine shot a buck that was walking fast, then ran about100 yards ,there was no heart left. To me a hole on the other side is just a nother hole

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You want the exit hole if possible for blood trailing. When i bow hunt, a complete pass through can mean the difference between finding the animal and losing the animal. Deer are extremely strong animals and can run for quite a long time on an adrenalin rush before expiring. I hunt in extremely thick woodland, multi flora rose, tall weeds and cornfields.. as a hunter I want as much blood to follow as possible, even using a muzzle loader. One hole means less blood. Follow the blood, find the animal.

flconch53 said:

So people that are not very good shots shouldn't go hunting

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Actually people that arnt very good shots should practice to get good, building confidence for that all important shot. I’ve never seen an individual that was a “ bad” shot. Just people that needed coaching and practice.

Rebel bull said:

I cannot believe how many normally sane people are convinced that the only proper shot is to try and drive a projectile through the shoulder of an animal ! I don't care which wiz-bang your shooting no projectile is made that will repeatedly put a hole through the shoulder blade I have personally witnessed a 300 win mag fail to penetrate on more then 1 occasion and more then one of the larger calibers also. but every year its the same thing "I wanted to knock it down so it couldn't go anywhere" in other words I'm to lazy to practice shot placement and can't track worth a damn . If you put it right next to the point of the elbow and don't chase it right away it won't go far! Don't take your eyes off of it until it drops or you can't see it any longer . Reload and wait a half hour minimum your deer will be laying there.

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What happens if you didn’t want the animal to run too far? I do both, shoulder and heart lung shots. If I don’t want it to run.. it’s a shoulder shot, also called an “ anchoring shot” if I don’t mind it running and have plenty of property to blood trail I’ll do the heart lung shot and blood trail. It’s up to the Hunter to make his/ her own shot for the situation at hand. Neither is bad shot.

Just as there are many people that can’t understand why you would use a .30/.30 instead of a .338 magnum, there are many who can’t understand using a .45 instead of a .54 or .58. It all comes down to personal preference, personal limitations and personal hunting styles. I say use the caliber you like, to hunt what you like and practice so you can make deadly accurate shots at the distances your terrain and cover allow and enjoy the experiences.