Going to look at one tomorrow

Im going to check out a few old rifles tomorrow. Here are a few pictures of a 45. Any idea what lock this is?

I’ve got the owner sending pics of the maple stocked 36 also.

Looks like a Russ Hamm lock to me. I have a caplock with very similar markings on the plate. Here is a link to one that sold here while back on the forum.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/russ-hamm-lock-flint-never-mounted.129367/

Not sure who's lock it is. It is either small for the gun or the gun stock has some odd geometry in that area.
I am curious to see the .36 pics.

Looks like it’s a 40.

That side plate location looks horrendous I'm sorry to say.

Looks like the rear lock screw is near the sear spring. There is a screw visible by the sear spring and sear/bridle screw. Also one is visible in the usual position the looks rounded off like it was peened like a rivet.

They are both hideous. I'd not make the trip. I'd certainly not pay more than $50 for the pair and that's generous.

though i am not as low with my appraisal as Mike, i am reminded of the saying ,"How to turn 800.00 worth of parts into a 200.00 dollar gun".
get them cheap enough and use the parts that aren't boogered up.

While the second one is vastly better than the first, except for that sideplate which is inexcusable,,,,, they are both pretty bad.
Maybe you can get them cheap enough to make it worth restocking all the hardware.

I purchased a couple of these novice build early kits. One was horribly inlet, so much so the builder used acraglas to make pillars so it would hold the lock in place (much like T/C used hot glue to make up for poor inletting). That muzzleloader was purchased for less than $100 and used for parts. The second one the lock was unusually small, the builder left a lot of wood. I was able to replace the lock with something more appropriately sized. Cleaned up the overall shape and scroll work to make a pretty nice rifle. Not perfect, but a nice shooter that I'm not afraid to use.

Sidney Smith said:

That side plate location looks horrendous I'm sorry to say.

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If your talking the 2nd rifle. It doesn't look like it's inlet, just laid on top, so he could make one and inlet it properly...possibly

Thanks everyone. The seller is at $400 each but willing to negotiate. I’ll probably walk.

Run, don't walk.

I’d pass.

T4halo1 said:

Thanks everyone. The seller is at $400 each but willing to negotiate. I’ll probably walk.

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At $800 you're pretty close to a nice Kibler kit or a decent used rifle. I wouldn't be interested in them if they were free. Would just take up too much time in my life worrying about what to do with them.

Put them down and run away.

Thought it looked odd. The lock bolt normally goes in front boss and the top. This one uses the rear boss on the sideplate. If it isn’t sunken into the wood just rotate the sideplate and drill correctly.

sportster73hp said:

Thought it looked odd. The lock bolt normally goes in front boss and the top. This one uses the rear boss on the sideplate. If it isn’t sunken into the wood just rotate the sideplate and drill correctly.

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I really hate to pee in your cheerios, but, slide away from this situation.
The sideplate on the second gun looks or seems like a minor easily fixed issue,,,, but I'd bet it is an indicator of deeper and more serious issues.

Look at all the extra wood in front of the lock. Whomever put these parts into/onto a piece of wood never really held and looked at even a reasonable flintlock rifle,,,, never mind a good one.

Yep. I passed. I want to thank everyone for the help.

Sum of the parts -$100 each

Back in the day people would build a rifle off the top of their head with no reference material like we have now, these two rifles are prime examples of the 60s and 70s beginner builds.