Flashes in the pan?

I have been shooting my Cabelas' .54 Hawken Flinter (Investarms) off and on at the range for nineteen years or so with generally good results. Today I had the worst run of flashes in the pan. Just about every other shot out of ten. I swabbed the bore clean before I began, and also damp patch and dry patch after every shot. 2F in the barrel, 4f in the pan, crunched the touch hole with a pick before priming. Wiped the frizzen and flint between shots. Good sparks, Lots of flash but no fire. Now after following this forum for a while I DID clean out the patent breech the last time I shot it. I did NOT wipe it dry before shooting today. Could oil or ??? in the patent breech area be the cause of my problems today? Thanks for any help. Tom

Probably oil. Gravity never sleeps. You should stand the rifle on its muzzle overnight after oiling and then wipe it out before using..

If you have fired several shots, and you know the breech was clean, I do not believe oil is the issue at that point. Humidity could be one of your issues, but I never use a pick unless I actually know the vent is plugged. You want the main charge to be right up next to the touch hole. Pick before you dump powder to make sure the vent is clear, but not after.
Flintlocklar

Yes oil plus fouling creates a real goo that will plug up the flash channel

If it eventually goes off after a few flashes in the pan then it’s probably not oil. Oil saturated powder normally will never ignite. Humidity, and fouling in your touch hole is probably the culprit. What size is the touch hole drilled out too? If it’s a removable touch hole liner pull it and check for lots of crud on the inside maybe from oil or cleaning solution. Drill the hole to at least 1/16th. Before I do any shooting I blast my barrel from the bore and through the touch hole with chlorine free brake cleaner. It’s gets any oils out of there for sure. Is the touch hole lined up in the pan correctly? Post some pics.

Larry (Omaha) said:

If you have fired several shots, and you know the breech was clean, I do not believe oil is the issue at that point. Humidity could be one of your issues, but I never use a pick unless I actually know the vent is plugged. You want the main charge to be right up next to the touch hole. Pick before you dump powder to make sure the vent is clear, but not after.
Flintlocklar

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I totally disagree with you. I pick the touch hole before every shot and rarely does this cause misfires.

Sidney Smith said:

I totally disagree with you. I pick the touch hole before every shot and rarely does this cause misfires.

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If it works for you, yes, go for it! My flinters do not need the pick, unless the vent is plugged. The closer the powder is to the vent opening, the better in my opinion.
Thanks for your thought.
Flintlocklar

Larry (Omaha) said:

If it works for you, yes, go for it! My flinters do not need the pick, unless the vent is plugged. The closer the powder is to the vent opening, the better in my opinion.
Thanks for your thought.
Flintlocklar

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And therein lies the key word, "opinion". I guess we are all entitled to our own methods .

I blow down the barrel after a shot.
I get a solid whoosh of air out the vent. Should you be afraid your empty gun is going to go off while in your mouth you can run a patch down the bore, or have a rubber tube that goes from mouth to bore keeping your head out of the way.
In any case, blow the vent clear before you load. With patch or lung air listen to that whoosh of air. Air out fire in.

I leave a "pick" in the flash hole while I load, does not get removed until i prime. No flashes of the pan, fast ignition.

Crud builds up quick in that little breech chamber on a Pedersoli. I'd bet that is the culprit. I'd bring along a small bore brush and some extra cleaning patches so you can clean that chamber out now and then.

I never used to use a pick unless there was a flash in the pan, but it's growing on me. I've shot a few hundred shots over the last couple of weeks and I began picking the touch-hole before each one and I've had almost zero flashes and literally zero misfires. I think there may be something to be said for picking routinely before each shot, but it's just an idea and opinion and I've been getting along with relatively few issues for a few decades without doing so as well. I think that a properly built rifle with an appropriate flint and which is kept clean is going to be very reliable. And of course there are some differences based on humidity and other factors for sure.

Brake cleaner, that sounds like a good idea.

Gavin T Lane said:

If it eventually goes off after a few flashes in the pan then it’s probably not oil. Oil saturated powder normally will never ignite. Humidity, and fouling in your touch hole is probably the culprit. What size is the touch hole drilled out too? If it’s a removable touch hole liner pull it and check for lots of crud on the inside maybe from oil or cleaning solution. Drill the hole to at least 1/16th. Before I do any shooting I blast my barrel from the bore and through the touch hole with chlorine free brake cleaner. It’s gets any oils out of there for sure. Is the touch hole lined up in the pan correctly? Post some pics.

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I was out shooting the other day and noticed that the flash hole was well plugged, maybe crusted over, after every shot. I am thinking this was due to atmospheric conditions, I have never noticed this before. I also found that the longer I waited to put my pick/pin through the hole, the harder it was to do so. Maybe picking after the shot would be more beneficial?

I have, and carry your typical tapered, square in cross section, steel/iron vent pick. I almost never use it. The pick/pin I use is a round in cross section piece of brass rod tapered so the fattest part hits the edge of the hole just before the tip hits the opposite barrel wall. It hangs from the same leather whang that my frizzen stall is tied to the trigger guard with. Immediately available to push into the hole to clear it and leave there to load the next shot.

Flashes in the pan and not igniting the main charge are not always the fault of the touch hole channel. Some times the pan sparks and fire just don't reach it, or the flint didn't generate enough sparks to create multiple ignition points. A sharp flint generating a shower of them decreases the odds of this happening though.

Agree. Ive hadflints do this. Once changed out problem went away.

MN284 said:

I swabbed the bore clean before I began, and also damp patch and dry patch after every shot.

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Likely pushing fouling down the bore and into the breech area. Next time out skip the swabbing and try a real wet patch with your roundball so you can easily load. And I mean a wet patch, maybe one squeeze between your thumb and forefinger before loading. Don’t worry about accuracy, just confirm the flash in the pan goes away. If it does, your swabbing technique is the culprit.

I usually pick between shots, but a flash in the pan in my experience is almost always either A) a greasy pan, or B) a loose, dull, or mishapen flint.

Well, today with my Cabelas' Hawken I shot seven times in a row with no flashes in the pan. Yesterday was NOT a humid day, today much the same. dry. Success, I think. Two things were different. One - I drilled the touch hole out from 1/16" to 5/64. The other was my way of picking the hole before priming.

In the past I have picked the hole with a paper clip (cheapskate) vigorously, as far as the clip would go, to the far side of the breech. Today I just picked it far enough to make sure the hole was clear and I could feel the "crunch" of powder. I guess I was pushing all the powder away from the flash of the prime, not just clearing a flash channel.

Problem solved? Who knows.

Tom

I load, pick, prime, wipe the flint edge and frizzen face, shoot, then swab. Always in that order.i don't think Ive ever had a flash in the pan.

With a bigger flash hole like that you MAY see some drop off in velocities, and a slower barrel dwell time.

Reason; the charge when it ignites sends the gas out the flash hole until the pressure builds to the point the vent can no longer evacuate the burned gas. Then the ball starts moving. With a larger flash hole more gas is going to come out before that happens.