Flintlock flash guards for competitive tournaments

[FlinterNick]

I’ve never heard the National Park Service determining what granulation of powder to use!
I’ve been in Rev War reenacting about 35 years and this is news to me.
The SOLE purpose of a flash guard is to guard your file-mate on the right from getting splatted with burning powder. Period.
Installing one on a Bess or Charleville musket presents NO safety issues.
Frizzen covers are the second requirement.
As for loading, a flash guard presents no obstacle, at least for those with basic motor skills
As for other shooting venues and public range rules, I can’t say.

I’ve never found them to be an obstacle, only if forgot to bring one with me and needed to find a Sutler FAST !

Otherwise, the Prussians and Austrians found them to be beneficial for safety and theorized that they increased ignition rates of fire by containing the heat around the flash pan and vent area. On a windy day at the range, i actually find them beneficial.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Flashguards were actually heavily used on German, Prussian and Austrian Muskets in the 18th and into the 19th centuries, definitely not a modern innovation.

The french had developed a very unique tube pan, which also acted as a pan cover and flash guard.

When the french designed the slanted brass pans on their 1777 models, they did so to direct the flash away and to also aid in priming by holding the musket vertical instead of parallel, this of course avoided them from hitting their neighbor in rank.

I don't want to be a pain but could you direct me to an illustration or picture of one of these 18th century flash guards? I all of the years I have been doing this I have never seen or heard of one.

 

[FlinterNick]

I don't want to be a pain but could you direct me to an illustration or picture of one of these 18th century flash guards? I all of the years I have been doing this I have never seen or heard of one.

Here ya go.

 

[FlinterNick]

Here ya go.View attachment 272794

We don’t often think of early English locks having a flash guard because they didn’t call it such, the pan cover or push cover did act as a sort of flash guar.d

 

[Commodore Swab]

What Nick is showing are wind shields to assist in the loading preventing powder from blowing.

 

[Commodore Swab]

I’ve never heard the National Park Service determining what granulation of powder to use!
I’ve been in Rev War reenacting about 35 years and this is news to me.
The SOLE purpose of a flash guard is to guard your file-mate on the right from getting splatted with burning powder. Period.
Installing one on a Bess or Charleville musket presents NO safety issues.
Frizzen covers are the second requirement.
As for loading, a flash guard presents no obstacle, at least for those with basic motor skills
As for other shooting venues and public range rules, I can’t say.

Care to explain the reasoning on percussion locks? Regarding powder grains hopefully someone can pull up their handbook? I'm on my phone and barely have a signal. I'm thrilled they offer no obstacle for you. Can you say the same for everyone else?

 

[PathfinderNC]

Care to explain the reasoning on percussion locks? Regarding powder grains hopefully someone can pull up their handbook? I'm on my phone and barely have a signal. I'm thrilled they offer no obstacle for you. Can you say the same for everyone else?

I don't do Percussion guns and have no idea about even needing a flash guard on a caplock. However, I do teach Muzzleloading (I am an NRA Certified Muzzleloading Instructor) at the Scouts' Camp Raven Knob each summer, and we use percussion rifles and rifled muskets for target shooting. As you may guess, the program is designed around SAFETY and the concept of using a flash guard ("Flash Cup"?) never has been raised.
I am a flintlock shooter, and they are important for close-rank (and other) musketry. But honestly, I have never encountered any other Rev War re-enactor who voiced and issue with using flash guards.

 

[Commodore Swab]

I don't do Percussion guns and have no idea about even needing a flash guard on a caplock. I am a flintlock shooter, and they are important for shoulder-to-shoulder firing. And honestly, I have never encountered any other Rev War re-enactor who voiced and issue with using flash guards.

Good for you. Now you know at least a couple people who disapprove

 

[PathfinderNC]

I don't do Percussion guns and have no idea about even needing a flash guard on a caplock. I teach muzzleloading at the Boy Scout Camp each summer, and the programs are extremely safety-oriented.

I am a flintlock shooter, and they are important for shoulder-to-shoulder firing. And honestly, I have never encountered any other Rev War re-enactor who voiced and issue with using flash guards.

Good for you. Now you know at least a couple people who disapprove

Yippie

 

[sturmkatze]

Good for you. Now you know at least a couple people who disapprove

You don’t count as you’re just here to troll in anonymity.

 

[PathfinderNC]

What Nick is showing are wind shields to assist in the loading preventing powder from blowing.

Interesting explanation. Can you share the source this information?

 

[Commodore Swab]

Brinckerhoff

Spanish Military Weapons in Colonial America

 

[PathfinderNC]

Brinckerhoff

Spanish Military Weapons in Colonial America

Nick showed an English lock.

 

[FlinterNick]

Interesting explanation. Can you share the source this factual information?

Per the Rifle Shoppe owner, the Prussians used a flash guard on their infantry muskets because the touch holes were over an eighth inch, so they didn’t have to prime separately and it doubled as a flash protection to the man on their right. They took the idea from the Austrians who were ahead of everyone technologically on the continent until the French came out with the 1777 year nine musket, then everyone copied those.

The premisis that flash guards are a modern creation for reinactor's is simply false, fake news.

Why would the rifle shoppe copy flash guards into their Prussian and Austrian Musket kits? It’s because they were part of the original muskets thats why.

How they can be considered less safe is a mystery to me? I’ve been re-enacting for a very long time, the only time i’ve had someone complain about one was when they didn’t have one or could find one to fit their lock.

 

[PathfinderNC]

Per the Rifle Shoppe owner, the Prussians used a flash guard on their infantry muskets because the touch holes were over an eighth inch, so they didn’t have to prime separately and it doubled as a flash protection to the man on their right. They took the idea from the Austrians who were ahead of everyone technologically on the continent until the French came out with the 1777 year nine musket, then everyone copied those.

The premisis that flash guards are a modern creation for reinactor's is simply false, fake news.

Why would the rifle shoppe copy flash guards into their Prussian and Austrian Musket kits? It’s because they were part of the original muskets thats why.

That certainly makes more sense than the “wind shield” theory.

 

[FlinterNick]

That certainly makes more sense than the “wind shield” theory.

Never heard of that one, when someone is lacking information they will always fill in the gaps with conjecture.

 

[PathfinderNC]

Never heard of that one, when someone is lacking information they will always fill in the gaps with conjecture.

A fellow (I think you’ve ignored?) said the English snaphaunce lock you posted a photo of, with the round shield beside the flash pan was not a flash guard but actually a “wind shield”.

 

[FlinterNick]

A fellow (I think you’ve ignored?) said the English lock you posted a photo of, with the round shield beside the flash pan was not a flash guard but actually a “wind shield”.

Interesting… I’ll let him argue with the rifle shoppe on that one. Lol

No wind guard in the parts set 579

 

[FlinterNick]

Interesting… I’ll let him argue with the rifle shoppe on that one. Lol

No wind guard in the parts set 579

Here’s the Austrian kit with the flash card for 12.95

 

[Commodore Swab]

To each their own opinion on what to believe.

I believe snaphaunces we're not military issue weapons where people were firing next to each other.

I believe earlier pans were larger to accommodate poorer ignition and poorer powder.

I believe the snaphaunce pictured in not a copy of an original but was scratch built. This is from discussing it in depth the last time I was in their shop.

I believe the later pieces we see are protectors for the pan and while they are military if it was to protect the other soldiers we would see an order older weapons in service to be modified to the new "standard".

Brinckerhoff believes "the brass pan and circular brass pan protector was standard on this model".

Brinckerhoff is backed the company of military historians, with a forward/introduction by the chief curator for the NPS

I conclude while there is historical evidence for pan protectors (wind shields) by historians enforced by military historians and approved by the NPS the same can not be said for flash guards. I see flash guards as a modern invention where people have sought to look back in history identifying something looking similar with a different purpose to make claims.

Knowing what I believe it should be easy to respond in such a way to change my beliefs.