Work square tumbler hole in cock

[mrremington]

Hello. Does anyone have Experience repairing a worn tumbler hole on the cock. I have a bit to much play in it, no excess play in tumbler just the square hole also some side to side play any advice on repairing it would be appreciated. I don't like the idea of peening with a hammer also maybe Jb weld to true the hole. Thanks mr remington

 

[Black Hand]

People have described using a cold chisel to upset metal and tighten the square hole in the hammer. This as accomplished by placing the chisel parallel to the edge (but not too close) and striking it with a hammer to spread the metal toward the opening.

 

[Vaino]

Both sides of the cock could be peened w/ a blunt, radiused chisel on all four sides. The backside would be hidden and the large headed screw would hide the marks on the front. After peening, a careful filing would produce a press fit which needs a good lubricant such as white lead when pressing onto the tumbler shaft. Make sure the corners of the top square of the tumbler shaft have a slight bevel to eliminate any chance of shearing metal and to provide a lead in ....Fred

 

[frogwalking]

We used to buy hammers with no hole. We would drill the hole, and file the square to fit. If I had a loose hammer, I would have my son weld up the hole in the hammer, redrill it and file the hole to fit. I would think peening would be a tempory fix.

 

[M. De Land]

That's how I would handle it as well and then re-harden and draw temper.
Tumblers are hard if correct and will wallow out hammer hole seats over time, especially if a sloppy fit it present to begin with.
The trouble with peening is it does not upset the hammer steel all the way through the depth and it won't peen well anyway if hardened like it ought to be. Mike D.

 

[Zonie]

JB Weld is good stuff but like all epoxies, it is just a form of plastic.

If used within its limitations it can repair a lot of things but it is far weaker than aluminum, brass or steel.

Although a flintlocks cock isn't subjected to the extreme blow of a percussion guns hammer when it strikes the cap/nipple, it still recieves a lot of force when the flint hits the frizzen and when the cock comes to a sudden stop at the end of its stroke.

These impacts would, in my opinion, soon crush any epoxy and render its presence useless.

If you can't buy a new cock to replace the existing one, peening the hole as described by the others or welding it up and reforming it is the best repair.

 

[mrremington]

Welding certainly sounds like a good option. I have a Russ Hamm lock so to find a spare hammer might be near impossible. This gun has seen quite a bit of shooting but I wonder if the steel might have been a little soft to begin with. Maybe I should post in the classified section to search for a parts lock. Thanks mr Remington

 

[jerrywh]

The main cause of loose hammers is this. The square shaft on the tumbler shoud have a slight taper to it. This configuration will keep the hammer tight for ever provided the hammer and the tumbler are properly heat treated. Most locks you see on contemporary longrifles are not case hardened nor are the hammers adding to the problem.

 

[don hepler]

I have some tiny pieces of shim from a feeler gage in one. I also used a .003 feeler gage to tighten, where the tumbler goes through the lock plate. Works for me.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Which ever way you go about repairing it, a properly hardened and tempered lock eliminates wallered out lock plates and cocks.

The locks of the 1700s and 1800s + were case hardened and tempered, even though the steel we make the locks out of today is better it is best if properly hardened and tempered as you have found out.

Good Luck

 

[Birddog6]

The only sure way I know is to weld it up. That being said, I only welded up 2 sides of the hole, as we are talking about a few thousands of wear. Welded up with wire welder, filed the hole square again, then fitted it to the tumbler shaft.

Note: the tumbler shaft is HARD and could/will shatter on the threaded end, if you force the hammer onto the shaft, trying to force fit it.

And same thing on removing the hammer. You DO NOT pry a hammer off a lock ! You disassemble the lock & you Punch the tumbler shaft out of the hole with a square brass punch.

Keith Lisle

 

[mrremington]

Keith. So when you welded the hole you only welded the minimum you did not fill the hole and re drill the hole. Did you re harden the hammer after. Thanks

 

[fleener]

I have used pieces of brass sheeting to take up the slop. Easy to use and works great. Feeler gauge would work perfect as well.

Fleener

 

[mrremington]

Funny thing I was trying the fit, i rotatated the hammer 180 deg. It fits good almost like the hole was made 180 deg. Out of wack. I guess it's off to get some welding done. Mr Remington

 

[frogwalking]

Dixie Gun Works still has a whole bunch of hammers in their inventory. You might look there for one that will work if you don't have ready access to a good welder. (Many of the old hammers are cast iron and can be very difficult to weld successfully.)

 

[ohio ramrod]

I also use shim stock to make small shims to tighten up the cocks.I have used brass shim stock in guns that held tight for several hundred shots. :hmm:

 

[mrremington]

Thanks I will check with them. That is where the lock was origanaly purchased back in 1968 or earlier. I think I will shim it for now thanks again

 

[M. De Land]

I feel it would make for a better overall out come if the build up of new metal fills the entire hole which would be more consistent for heat treating if the entire hole area were of the same material. It will likely be better centered as well.
TIG weld would be the preferred method as it will have far less tendency to leave voids than will a MIG or wire feed. Mike D.

 

[matt denison]

This whole thread sounds like a race to see who can figure out the most complicated way to fix an incredibly simple problem. Weld it? center and redrill it? then spend how much time filing a square hole that exactly fits the square axle without it being worse than the fit he has now? C'mon.

Stake the hole with
a. a drift punch
b. a very small chisel
c. round end of a small ball peen hammer, one smack will do it.

I could stake five hammers in the time it took to type this and they would ALL last forever or almost forever. I can not tell you how many times I have "fixed" a lose hammer using these methods. I even did one at a primitive rendezvous using an iron screwdriver and two tomahawks, one as the anvil. And no I am not a lock butcher. I have building and repairing them longer than this furum has been up and running.

 

[M. De Land]

Good enough with a soft hammer I guess. Won't work correctly with a properly cased or through hardened hammer steel unless annealed and re-hardened.
A wallowed out hole from a poor fit to begin with needs metal addition not distortion to fit correctly and maintain original profile and cross section depth.
Many are engraved and will need redone with either method but the weld will maintain the thickness of the hammer root.
And why do something half way when totally capable of doing it better. Mike D.