Which lock w/ unbridled frizzen?

[CWC]

I've got the stock and barrel ordered for my next build...a northwest trade gun. Now it's time to order the lock. I'm shooting for around a 1775 era trade gun. At this time the locks had unbridled frizzens and tumblers. I've found several reproduction locks with unbridled frizzens, but I'm not sure which would be the best choice. Any suggestions?

 

[Birddog6]

Jim Chambers Flintlocks........ I would look at the early Ketland lock.

Only lock builder I know of with a Lifetime Warranty, wonderful service, and just dang good people to deal with. I have tried all the major brands, none can match them for the price & quality...... IMHO :thumbsup:

Keith Lisle

 

[rabjr]

You can also unbridle any bridled lock that you might want to use too. I've had this done before.

 

[CWC]

I had actually thought about trying to unbridle a lock, but wasn't sure how to go about it. Do you have any tips?

 

[rabjr]

Roy did mine but I would think a dremal with a cut off tool or a hacksaw would be used to make your first cut. Then it's a matter of filing the pan and the frizzen screw area to make it look like one was never there.

 

[Zonie]

Before one goes to whacking the frizzen bridle off of their locks they should give them a good look.

Many of the bridled frizzen flintlocks use that bridle as the location for the screw threads for the frizzen screw.
Once cut off, the frizzen screw will not have anything to screw into.

"Well, just reverse the screw" one might say but all of the material for that size frizzen screw has already been drilled oversize to clear the screw. To make matters worse, on some locks the lockplate has been counterbored on the inside to clear the frizzen screw head leaving almost no material there for new oversized threads.

OK, so there is enough material there for some oversized threads. Now, the next problem is the drilling out of the hole for the new oversize frizzen screw.
Most modern frizzens are made from thru hardening steel and the frizzen has been nicely hardened to something that is just slightly softer than a drill bit. Not easy to drill thru. :hmm:

OK, so you place the frizzen upright into a cup of water and heat the lower pan cover and screw hole red hot and then slowly back off the torch so the area slowly cools. Yup, that would work to anneal the area so now you can enlarge the hole to fit the new screw.

I don't know about you folks but to me this sounds like a he11 of a lot of work to alter a perfectly good lock while there are a large number of equally good locks available which were designed to use a bridle-less frizzen.
Buying one of these would be my choice.

 

[Birddog6]

:rotf: :rotf: If I had to do all of that just for a screw boss, I would just change style of rifle & build a different one ! :wink: But.... ya gotta do what ya gotta do...... :idunno:

But you are correct in the thought of the effects of whacking off the front of the bridle may bring to light...... Ya could bite off a lil more than a mouthful........ :shocked2:

Keith Lisle

 

[rabjr]

Didn't have to do any of that with mine Zonie.

 

[Birddog6]

I guess it would all depend on the lock style & if the frizzen screw is going from the outside in, or the inside to out, etc. Correct ? :idunno:

Also just thinking on it, would you need to harden the lockplate to insure the threads retaining the screw will hold up ? as you just took away 1/2 of the support ? :hmm: And harden the frizzen screw as well ? :hmm:

Whatcha think Swampy ?

Keith Lisle

 

[rabjr]

Roy told me there shouldn't be a problem and thats good enough for me.

While we are discussing it, how were original lock plates treated on unbridled locks, were they hardened? Anyone ever see an original unbidled lock where the frizzen screw failed?

 

[CWC]

I've checked out the offerings from Chambers and L&R. Out of those 2, I agree with Birddog6 about the Early Ketland looking like the best choice. Am I missing some other good locks? There has to be more out there than L&R and Chambers, but since this is just my second build I don't know where else to look.

 

[Roy]

I guess it would all depend on the lock style & if the frizzen screw is going from the outside in, or the inside to out, etc. Correct ? :idunno:

Also just thinking on it, would you need to harden the lockplate to insure the threads retaining the screw will hold up ? as you just took away 1/2 of the support ? :hmm: And harden the frizzen screw as well ? :hmm:

Whatcha think Swampy ?

Keith Lisle

Hardening a lockplate isn't needed to insure the threads, case hardening the screw does help a bit on wear. :v

Altering a lock to make it look like something else is really not that big of deal... I see lock plates filed on to change their looks all of the time.

Having the ability and know how to make these changes, is up to the individual and their comfort level. :v

 

[rabjr]

Damn straight, thats why I have you do it. :wink: :thumbsup:

 

[rabjr]

I've checked out the offerings from Chambers and L&R. Out of those 2, I agree with Birddog6 about the Early Ketland looking like the best choice. Am I missing some other good locks? There has to be more out there than L&R and Chambers, but since this is just my second build I don't know where else to look.

CWC,

There is R.E.Davis locks, http://www.redaviscompany.com/

But if you want an Unbridled Trade gun lock, I think you'll find the Chambers Early Ketland your best choice.

 

[CWC]

I emailed Matt at North Star West to ask if he could do an unbridled version of their standard trade gun lock. He got back to me quickly, and said he has modified quite a few to be unbridled. I'm thinking this might be my best option, since it already has the trade gun styling. How is the quality of the NSW locks?

 

[J.D.]

If you are interested in a NW gun, circa 1775, I would do LOTS of research, as the details changed quite a bit through the years.

IMHo, most, if not all of the NW guns offered today are of a much later period, with post 18oo period guns being the norm.

Again, if historical correctness is important to you, do your own research rather than relying on a vendor to provide what could be spurious dating, to sell you a gun.

God bless

 

[rich pierce]

The Davis round faced English lock is a good sparker and a good early lock for many English trade guns, Wilsons etc.

 

[thewho66]

I believe Caywood also has an un bridaloed lock. I would check it out as well.