Hey all, I’m just diving into the possibility of subs in my .54 gpr percussion. I have only used goex 2f since I bought the rifle ten years ago. I received half a pound of pyrodex p that is over ten years old from my dad and it shot accurately with 80 grains behind a PRB, but I was not a fan of the misfires/hang fires. I don’t know if it was because of the older powder or the standard #11 cci caps I was using. I recently bought 1300 #11 cci magnum caps because that’s what the gun shop had and I am tired of playing the components shortage game. I also bought a can of 777 2fg to try. I will try the pyrodex p again and also the 777 with the magnum caps and see what happens. I am hoping one of these subs will work at extremely cold temp. For hunting purposes, but until that is proven I will save my last 3 pounds of goex for hunting and use subs for target shooting.
-
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
What’s your favorite BP substitute.
- Thread starter sdhunter
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
Uh oh....here we go.... 
I quite like Triple 7.
I quite like Triple 7.
considering that I shoot mainly flintlocks none.
As you should, those things hang fire enough on real black powder lol.
user 49399
54 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2020
- Messages
- 1,583
- Reaction score
- 2,716
I use several types.
Goex or Schuetzen 2F for flintlocks.
Pyrodex P for percussion hand guns.
Pyrodex RS for percussion rifles.
American Pioneer for small cannon.
777 for percussion in!|@$.
CCI magnum caps.
Homemade flints.
No problem with any of them.
Goex or Schuetzen 2F for flintlocks.
Pyrodex P for percussion hand guns.
Pyrodex RS for percussion rifles.
American Pioneer for small cannon.
777 for percussion in!|@$.
CCI magnum caps.
Homemade flints.
No problem with any of them.
Last edited:
use what what works best for you.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2020
- Messages
- 7,026
- Reaction score
- 19,482
- Location
- On the Border in Idaho looking at BC
well........... I have been shooting my homemade BP only for 60 years.
today i found a box of pyrodex 50/50 pellets someone gave me about 10 or 12 years ago, and i promptly shoved onto a shelf in the shop.
Hmmmm says me. lets see just what this stuff will do.
grabbed my old CVA mountain rifle and plunked one of those 50 gve pellets down the throat, felt wad over it, 490prb and a winchester magnum cap.
popped the cap and that old cva gagged and vomited the wad,patch, and ball out to about 30 yards.
safe to say pyrodex ain't going to be my favorite replacement.
neighbor gave me a bottle of 777 something. going to give it a try tomorrow.
don't want to die before i try everything at least once!
today i found a box of pyrodex 50/50 pellets someone gave me about 10 or 12 years ago, and i promptly shoved onto a shelf in the shop.
Hmmmm says me. lets see just what this stuff will do.
grabbed my old CVA mountain rifle and plunked one of those 50 gve pellets down the throat, felt wad over it, 490prb and a winchester magnum cap.
popped the cap and that old cva gagged and vomited the wad,patch, and ball out to about 30 yards.
safe to say pyrodex ain't going to be my favorite replacement.
neighbor gave me a bottle of 777 something. going to give it a try tomorrow.
don't want to die before i try everything at least once!
Mines 2f T7, but,,
Switching to a hot-shot/red hot type nipple helps also. I've been using Knights Red hot nipples for over a decade.
You have to be sure to get the powder down into the fire-channel near the nipple, a good rap or thump on the side of the stock near the breech helps.
Switching to a hot-shot/red hot type nipple helps also. I've been using Knights Red hot nipples for over a decade.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2009
- Messages
- 4,264
- Reaction score
- 7,227
3F T7, P grade Pyrodex works too. Use the Remington 11 caps, a good nipple and be,sure to tap the barrel to settle powder into breech under your nipple. I’ve had good ignition with this system.
William Lincoln
54 Cal.
None of the subs are a favorite with me. I did use a few lbs of the Black MX and
it shot fine. Pyrodex let me down several times-but then it was old dated stuff.
I cannot find a substitute that is as reliable as Real BP.
it shot fine. Pyrodex let me down several times-but then it was old dated stuff.
I cannot find a substitute that is as reliable as Real BP.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2004
- Messages
- 3,019
- Reaction score
- 6,487
Sorry my friend, no hang fires if ya have the lock and TH tuned.
Ask the flintlock shooters here and see what they say.
Larry
I am confused, did I post in the flintlock thread or the percussion thread? I could care less about subs in a flintlock! I was hoping to get advice and tips from guys who have had success with subs in percussion muzzleloaders, not a stream of guys talking about flintlocks in the percussion thread.
If my memory serves me right, I believe I have an ampco nipple on the gpr now. If the cci #11 magnum caps don’t work on my current nipple I might have to order some nipples. Good tip
Last edited:
If my memory serves me right, I believe I have an ampco nipple on the gpr now. If the cci #11 magnum caps don’t work on my current nipple, I might have to order some nipples. Good tip
Ah, @sdhunter, we wandered off topic again.
My experience with Pyrodex was about 40 years ago, not long after Pyrodex was introduced with all the claims about reduced fouling, it seemed to be just what I needed to use in my revolver. Every cylinder was a hang fire. I had figured that with the straight line from the revolver nipple to the powder charge that there shouldn't have been a hang fire since there wasn't a problem when I used 2Fg DuPont powder. Maybe I should see if there is still some life in those old cylinders of Pyrodex.
I've been lucky to always have access to real black powder, so I don't have a favorite substitute powder. I do recommend substitutes for percussion shooters who live where access to real black powder is limited and quantities sufficient for affordable delivery can't be justified. They will have to determine their particular favorite substitute powder.
My experience with Pyrodex was about 40 years ago, not long after Pyrodex was introduced with all the claims about reduced fouling, it seemed to be just what I needed to use in my revolver. Every cylinder was a hang fire. I had figured that with the straight line from the revolver nipple to the powder charge that there shouldn't have been a hang fire since there wasn't a problem when I used 2Fg DuPont powder. Maybe I should see if there is still some life in those old cylinders of Pyrodex.
I've been lucky to always have access to real black powder, so I don't have a favorite substitute powder. I do recommend substitutes for percussion shooters who live where access to real black powder is limited and quantities sufficient for affordable delivery can't be justified. They will have to determine their particular favorite substitute powder.
I hope I don’t run into those issues with the gpr. Up here in North I have had a heck of a time finding black powder, it was probably 8 years ago when I bought my last batch of goex at a gun shop in Bismarck, Nd and at that time they said they were done ordering BP. I just don’t want to deal with all the hassle that comes with ordering BP online. Trust me, when it comes to buying BP at a shop, I wish I lived in the southern states. But when hunting season comes around I am glad I live up here.
I shoot mostly T7 2fg in my .50 cal caplock. I find it’s very punchy powder. Consistent. Cleans up easy. I found Pyrodex fine to shoot but not quite as easy to clean up.
i shoot Goex too periodically.
i shoot Goex too periodically.
CapPopper
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2017
- Messages
- 554
- Reaction score
- 339
I have a lot of hangfire comparative to real black with Pyrodex..... Especially after the gun has been loaded a few days which just doesn't cut it for hunting which is my main purpose for my .50..... And all my other guns are flint so..... I started making my own black cause it's just to expensive for me to order in bulk and it's almost impossible to find locally..... Have no experience with the other subs though maybe 777 is better.
I don't really like any of the subs much. Maybe T7 in a severe pinch but I plan way ahead to avoid that. I've seen Pyrodex since it's introduction and none of the marketing claims made were true. If fouled as much and that fouling was more corrosive and abrasive than real black. Ignition could be spotty. Never had an issue with real black. Clean up is far more intensive than real black if you don't want the rust fairy to visit.
The problem you guys have in getting real black is you're depending on finding it at a local store and buying a couple pounds per year. From the store's POV, that's a loss cuz there are regulations and insurance hoops to jump through just to be able to offer those couple pounds per year that you may or may not buy. They're not in business to lose money so them having real black is a very unlikely possibility. You want real black? Man up and order it in quantity to make the hazmat insignificant. Don't shoot but a couple pounds per year? Shoot more or stock more or pool your order with some like minded friends. There are ways around "I can't find black powder locally"........
The problem you guys have in getting real black is you're depending on finding it at a local store and buying a couple pounds per year. From the store's POV, that's a loss cuz there are regulations and insurance hoops to jump through just to be able to offer those couple pounds per year that you may or may not buy. They're not in business to lose money so them having real black is a very unlikely possibility. You want real black? Man up and order it in quantity to make the hazmat insignificant. Don't shoot but a couple pounds per year? Shoot more or stock more or pool your order with some like minded friends. There are ways around "I can't find black powder locally"........
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2004
- Messages
- 3,019
- Reaction score
- 6,487
No need to be confused my friend. You started a good post with a viable question. Later, you added a statement that most flintlock shooters would disagree with. I was replying to your interjection of other subject matter beyond your original post. Seriously, too many shooters are skeptical of flintlocks because they see and hear of hang fire issues. If they only knew a better approach to shooting flintlock, more shooters would enjoy both cap and flint.
Sorry if I caused any issues with you.
Larry
