What’s your favorite BP substitute.

[andy52]

Sorry my friend, no hang fires if ya have the lock and TH tuned.
Ask the flintlock shooters here and see what they say.
Larry

I've never had a single hang fired since I started shooting flinters 30 years ago. Matter of fact I've only had one in a caplock and that was my fault.

 

[Okie Hog]

Pyrodex will work when used in a properly maintained conventional muzzleloader.

1. Clean the flash channel with a bristled pipe cleaner.

2. After loading the powder lean the rifle lock side down and give the stocks a couple whacks with the palm. This allows powder to enter the flash channel.

3. If regular caps give misfires use magnum caps. Remington caps work well for me.

 

[CapPopper]

I don't really like any of the subs much. Maybe T7 in a severe pinch but I plan way ahead to avoid that. I've seen Pyrodex since it's introduction and none of the marketing claims made were true. If fouled as much and that fouling was more corrosive and abrasive than real black. Ignition could be spotty. Never had an issue with real black. Clean up is far more intensive than real black if you don't want the rust fairy to visit.

The problem you guys have in getting real black is you're depending on finding it at a local store and buying a couple pounds per year. From the store's POV, that's a loss cuz there are regulations and insurance hoops to jump through just to be able to offer those couple pounds per year that you may or may not buy. They're not in business to lose money so them having real black is a very unlikely possibility. You want real black? Man up and order it in quantity to make the hazmat insignificant. Don't shoot but a couple pounds per year? Shoot more or stock more or pool your order with some like minded friends. There are ways around "I can't find black powder locally"........

You're right I do depend on finding it at a store..... Whatever you may think not all of us can just dump $150 dollars on powder. I need things like food and gas and often I can't afford a pound even when I find it. Hoping things will start getting better now that my son is in school and the wife's back to work. But saying we should just "man up" is fairly insulting..... I'm manning up Everytime I buy kids clothes or medicine or any number of other things my family requires.... Spending a large sum of money on powder is selfish...... So pardon me while I continue to "man up" at work for at least 6 more hours so my family can have the essentials......

 

[dave951]

You're right I do depend on finding it at a store..... Whatever you may think not all of us can just dump $150 dollars on powder. I need things like food and gas and often I can't afford a pound even when I find it. Hoping things will start getting better now that my son is in school and the wife's back to work. But saying we should just "man up" is fairly insulting..... I'm manning up Everytime I buy kids clothes or medicine or any number of other things my family requires.... Spending a large sum of money on powder is selfish...... So pardon me while I continue to "man up" at work for at least 6 more hours so my family can have the essentials......

I raised 3 kids and never had an issue getting powder and I'm not nor have I ever been wealthy. I'm now on SS and drive a vehicle that gets 15mpg and leaks oil like an Exxon tanker. Where there is an problem, find a solution. One pound or two pounds per year is very low consumption. Get to be friends with a reenactor or join an NMLRA charter club and pool an order with them for the real deal to seriously amortize shipping and hazmat costs.

 

[Lonewalker]

Triple 7 has worked well, in all mine EVEN THE FLINTLOCKS (prime with real black)

 

[gonpce]

T7 works fine in my percussion guns

 

[Wcerin]

I've had very good luck with Pyrodex P as a sub through my .50 cal Isaac Haines percussion rifle. On that note I'm not that fond of CCI caps, if I can find them I prefer the Remington caps they seem to fit better on my lock and give me better ignition.

 

[Trooper]

I am confused, did I post in the flintlock thread or the percussion thread? I could care less about subs in a flintlock! I was hoping to get advice and tips from guys who have had success with subs in percussion muzzleloaders, not a stream of guys talking about flintlocks in the percussion thread.

I’ve been using 80 gns of T7 in my .54 with great results.

 

[Spokes]

I use 777. Easy to find. Easy cleanup. It works for me.

 

[Howard Pippin]

I am confused, did I post in the flintlock thread or the percussion thread? I could care less about subs in a flintlock! I was hoping to get advice and tips from guys who have had success with subs in percussion muzzleloaders, not a stream of guys talking about flintlocks in the percussion thread.

No need to be confused my friend. You started a good post with a viable question. Later, you added a statement that most flintlock shooters would disagree with. I was replying to your interjection of other subject matter beyond your original post. Seriously, too many shooters are skeptical of flintlocks because they see and hear of hang fire issues. If they only knew a better approach to shooting flintlock, more shooters would enjoy both cap and flint.
Sorry if I caused any issues with you.
Larry

Good morning Larry. Having both percussion and a flintlock, I have different types of powder on hand. At my age I'm not interested in 5 pounds of black, no place to buy it in Montana anymore, and I'm not interested in trying to ship that much because of the hazard regulations, so I'm saving what I have for my flintlock, which is enough for a number of years.
This last year I acquired two more percussions, and the first one which was brand-new, I measured the hole in the nipple and it was a .028. I ordered a new stainless steel nipple, bored out the nipple hole to .030 before I ever shot the rifle. I use 777, works every time, it has more than kick then black, so them round balls moved right along. The other percussion I acquired was used, never been cleaned, a Lyman originally purchased in the 70s. What little I've shot it, which is probably 20 times, using 777 and regular primers, it has never misfired. I can see by looking at the nipple that it is fairly large, though I haven't measured it yet. I'm sure it's about Max and is going to start resetting the hammer so I will have to purchase another. I do have some pyrodex, purchased about 25 years ago, and I used it in a TC percussion, and never had any bad luck. It worked fine just the way the gun was, a 50 caliber left-handed percussion. Rifle still shoots and I saw to it that it was cleaned every time. I'll bet everyone would be surprised of how many of the old timers would have used something besides black if it would've been available. They were pretty darn quick to accept percussion over flintlock, and those that lived very old readily took to cartridge guns. Shucks, I even hunt with one of those unmentionable type guns now and then, and I don't apologize to anybody for what I do for fun. why I even own a coonskin cap.
Squint

 

[Archer 756]

Blackhorn 209 if your weapon can use it powder most used HOT primer

 

[Walkingeagle]

My go to sub has always been Pyro-P in my caps. But as I still have lots of black from the $8 per pound days, I’m shooting it up first. Black is over $50/lb up here!!
Walk

 

[tenngun]

I don’t like subs and I shoot a flint lock. However my prejudice is based on it being a sub. I have some pyrodex and I shoot it off a kicker of black powder. It works fine, I can’t tell it from the real.
It’s very corrosive but after shooting cleaning my gun come before dinner or any relaxing after getting home. The sun does not set on a dirty gun of mine. Or if I just couldn’t get to it before dark(like working up game) I clean before any thing else.

 

[pwbsmokey]

well........... I have been shooting my homemade BP only for 60 years.
today i found a box of pyrodex 50/50 pellets someone gave me about 10 or 12 years ago, and i promptly shoved onto a shelf in the shop.
Hmmmm says me. lets see just what this stuff will do.
grabbed my old CVA mountain rifle and plunked one of those 50 gve pellets down the throat, felt wad over it, 490prb and a winchester magnum cap.
popped the cap and that old cva gagged and vomited the wad,patch, and ball out to about 30 yards.
safe to say pyrodex ain't going to be my favorite replacement.
neighbor gave me a bottle of 777 something. going to give it a try tomorrow.
don't want to die before i try everything at least once!

Could possibly be that they were pellets, more than the fact that they were Pyrodex. Since the pellets are not in a sealed container they have a short shelf life. I never understood the logic of using pellets

 

[59sharps]

In my real Muzzleloaders real BP. In my unmentionable mz either real for targets or what ever pellets are available for hunting. My son dose the same.

 

[Dave Dworshak]

I have no problem with pyrodex or T7.

 

[wb78963]

Presently laying on my bench loaded, capped, and ready is my 1861 Uberti Navy loaded with Alliant Black MZ (an American Pioneer Powder product) under a 128 grain Eras Gone Colt paper cartridge bullet . APP under any name works well in revolvers and my Smith carbine. I see no reason it would not work well in my GR Plains rifle because the fire path is short. Consistent, reliable ignition in the 1859 paper cartridge Sharps is problematic so there I use the real stuff that DuPont calls Gunpowder.
What i like about APP is the fouling is concurrent, not cumulative so you are essentially one shot dirty and no lube is needed.
What I don't like is the smoke does not smell right and there is no BOOM like you get with the real thing which, by the way, is what I usually shoot.
My opinion on what work for me YMMV
Hold center
Bunk

 

[hanshi]

Other than a disappointing trial of gifted Pyrodex years ago I've never had any experience with subs. T7? seems popular but I've never used it. So if I absolutely had to name a sub it would be blue match heads.

 

[andy52]

Triple 7 has worked well, in all mine EVEN THE FLINTLOCKS (prime with real black)

I've heard that works but haven't tried it yet.

 

[PastorB]

Been doing the muzzleloader thing since 1977, not as long as some, but still over four decades. For the first 15 years or so, I thought Pyrodex (RS or P) was Black Powder. I got a tub of it when I bought my first muzzleloader (Charles Daly/Investarms Hawken .54), a .45-70 shell as a measure, round balls, and whatever patch thickness they had. When the patches were gone, old t-shirts became my patch material. Killed a bunch of game that way despite my ignorance of Pyro vs. Holy Black, linen vs. pillow ticking, etc. Never had a problem in any PERCUSSION gun (long guns or revolvers) getting the gun to fire. Never have even had a hangfire. I now use mostly 777 in everything but flinters, but could live with Pyrodex just fine. In my experience 777 does exactly what it advertises, easy clean up, and significantly increased velocity over Pyro or real black (including Swiss). No need to reduce loads 15% when using 777, unless you want Goex performance. Another myth concerning 777 is that it can't be compressed. That applies only to metallic cartridge reloading, load as usual in muzzleloaders. That isn't internet wisdom, that is straight from Hodgdon, which information is easily acquired through an e-mail or phone call.