Wasting Powder in A 5.5 Inch 1858

[Capnballhunter]

Hey folks, I usually load my 5.5 inch barreled 1858 Pietta .44 with 40 grains of Pyrodex P and a .454 rb. Grease on top, Remington #11 caps.

I've seen range videos of my pistol going off with this load and there is a VAST fireball at the muzzle. And I mean like a cubic foot of flame or more. lol. Its very visible on cloudy days when shooting but from a video perspective its quite bright.

Although this is obviously cool,is this combustion happening outside the barrel merely a waste of powder. Should I perhaps back off my charge by 5-7 grains?

If anyone has chrono data of the 5.5 Pietta I would appreciate that as well.

Thank ya

 

[Claude Mathis]

I would use whatever gave me the best accuracy.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Don't have an actual velocity reading for the 5.5" Remington, but the extensive article done for comparison of black powder revolvers and how they compare to modern handguns/calibers gave the following results with 141 gr. round balls and FFFg powder:

M.1860 Army(Colt)- 30 grs.; vel. 840 fps
M.1860 & M.1858(Rem.)- 35 grs.; vel. 935 fps
M.1860("Sheriff's Model"-5" bbl.)- 30 grs.; vel. 756 fps

Both .44's matched velocity with 35 grains and 8" barrels. The 30 grains charge is easier to load in most M.1860's and gave about 90 fps less velocity in the 5" barrel. Your 5.5" barrel should up that a bit, say 10-15 fps with full loads. For comparison, the Ruger "Old Army" could get in 40 grains of FFFg for 1,031 fps; the Colt Dragoon took 50 grains of FFFg for 1,181 fps and the Colt Walker cranked up to 60 grains for 1.287 fps.

 

[Many Klatch]

Sounds like a lot of powder to punch holes in paper. For paper punching I only use about 25 grains of 3F in my Remington New Army. That boots the ball out the barrel fast enough to do what I need. If I was going to hunt hogs or something I would load it heavier.

 

[hawkeye2]

You can cut your charge in half! I use my revolvers in matches and the max. accuracy load I found in any of them was 22 grs. 3f for a .44 with Cream of Wheat for a filler. It gives plenty of noise and smoke too.

 

[swathdiver]

It's the Pyrodex, switch to BP. :blah:

Seriously, you could back off quite a bit for punching paper. But, the flame is sure to garner oohs and ahhs from the pop gun crowd.

As for using such a load for self defense, again, the flame alone should cause the perp to surrender if you happen to miss! :thumbsup:

I tested that theory that less is more with regards to accuracy a couple of weeks ago in my Pietta Remington. 15 grains was second best. 35 grains with a wad under the ball produced groups over an inch tighter. Real Black Powder only here! :blah:

 

[Capnballhunter]

Thanks guys, I like to practice at the range with my full power field loads and typically stick with one load per gun for consistency. If I were to practice with 20 grains, 40 is gonna shoot way different as ya know.

I've got a bunch of carefully measured and well made paper cartridges made up with 35 grains pyro P and a rb. Gonna put these next to my 40 grain loads for accuracy next time I go shootin. I'll post the results.

Got a strong feeling that I may be achieving max velocity with 35 and just making a lot of flame with 40...less can be more.

 

[Capnballhunter]

It's the Pyrodex, switch to BP. :blah:

Seriously, you could back off quite a bit for punching paper. But, the flame is sure to garner oohs and ahhs from the pop gun crowd.

As for using such a load for self defense, again, the flame alone should cause the perp to surrender if you happen to miss! :thumbsup:

I tested that theory that less is more with regards to accuracy a couple of weeks ago in my Pietta Remington. 15 grains was second best. 35 grains with a wad under the ball produced groups over an inch tighter. Real Black Powder only here! :blah:

haha good stuff.

Yeah I figure if I had to use this gun for self defense in the dark myself and the bad guy would be blinded both. Its literally throwing a basketball sized ball of orange flame and of course a crapload of smoke. Its hard to notice while shooting but I can pause the video and see the fireball in all its glory, very cool actually.
And hey, Pyrodex is basically black powder with a few added ingredients to make it meet shipping and storage regs for smokeless, a little less sensitive to ignite, its basically black powder refined. Vast majority of the ingredients are the same....I like it, cheaper and hotter than Goex, half the cost of Swiss(which I am a fan of)and it smells pretty good. I think its as good as Swiss powder for most shooting.

I wouldn't mind trying the Goex Olde Eynsford Match Grade if cost was no issue. Its supposed to be competitive with Swiss in many ways.

 

[necchi]

And hey, Pyrodex is basically black powder with a few added ingredients,,,,, its basically black powder refined. Vast majority of the ingredients are the same....

Wow, you could study at least a little bit,

You have a case of what's called "Magnumitice", I see it in all of your posts, you've got the idea that more powder is always better. No amount of advice or experience will sway you to actually look at real results.
It's easy for anyone to go into an experiment and find the results they want to find when they have a premeditated goal.

Don't get me wrong, I like and use Pyrodex too, but I'll never compare it to black with that kind of broad brush simplicity.

Experiment with a few hundred rounds, not only with powders but charges, with accuracy as the goal,, keep the targets and do some real comparisons.

Your trying to tell people here that have been shooting ML and C&B guns since you where 6, what you have observed in just a few weeks.

 

[Capnballhunter]

And hey, Pyrodex is basically black powder with a few added ingredients,,,,, its basically black powder refined. Vast majority of the ingredients are the same....

Wow, you could study at least a little bit,

You have a case of what's called "Magnumitice", I see it in all of your posts, you've got the idea that more powder is always better. No amount of advice or experience will sway you to actually look at real results.
It's easy for anyone to go into an experiment and find the results they want to find when they have a premeditated goal.

Don't get me wrong, I like and use Pyrodex too, but I'll never compare it to black with that kind of broad brush simplicity.

Experiment with a few hundred rounds, not only with powders but charges, with accuracy as the goal,, keep the targets and do some real comparisons.

Your trying to tell people here that have been shooting ML and C&B guns since you where 6, what you have observed in just a few weeks.

I indeed like a powerfully loaded 1858. It was never intended as a target piece with mild report.Hahaha I must indeed be stricken with "magnumivitis' or whatever you say.

I've been shooting since I was a kid, shot almost every brand of "real" black powder and Pyrodex can do anything the other stuff can and is probably safer to have around the house. I don't own a flintlock but if I did I would certainly be using Swiss, which I also am fond of.

Fact of the matter is that in cap n ball revolvers and caplocks pyrodex is as good as regular black powder, in my experience, both have their strong points. In the real world of hunting, not historical reenactments, Pyrodex is a very good choice for a number of reasons.

This thread is about something else btw..my accuracy at 25 yards is acceptable to me with 40 grains and I don't mind the blast. I only wonder am I achieving enough extra velocity to justify that amount of powder.

I hunt with most of my guns, not all, but most. Therefore I load them hot and practice with hot loads. Thanks

 

[Don]

I think 40 grains is a bit much but if its accurate and your revolver can take the pounding then go for it. I like Pyrodex but recently have been making trips to Maine to get Swiss and Schutzen real black. Both brands shoot much cleaner than Goex and the Swiss is as hot as 777.

Don

 

[Capnballhunter]

I think 40 grains is a bit much but if its accurate and your revolver can take the pounding then go for it. I like Pyrodex but recently have been making trips to Maine to get Swiss and Schutzen real black. Both brands shoot much cleaner than Goex and the Swiss is as hot as 777.

Don

40 grains with a lead rb isn't hard on the 1858 in the least. The muzzle flip and "kick" isnt much different than a 30 grain load.

Only big difference to me is that the report is in the .357 Magnum arena and of course its hurling orange balls of flame. A heavy conical on top of 30 grains is way harder to handle as far as muzzle flip, etc.

What are you paying for that Swiss up in Maine?

 

[nkbj]

OK, it's time.
:haha:
If the fire ball is unburned powder then you need more lead!

 

[Capnballhunter]

OK, it's time.
:haha:
If the fire ball is unburned powder then you need more lead!

Now thats more like it!! I like the way you think I'm working on a 170-175 grain .454 RN soft lead conical that should fit over a heavy charge of Pyrodex in a Pietta. Muhahahahaha!

Make my own heavy wadcutters by heating and rolling/pounding .490 rifle balls into the proper diameter. Takes some time to get set up but I can punch out a few a minute with great consistency. Gonna try with some .530 round balls too for a heavier chunk.

 

[mooman76]

If you are making conicals by rounding down some bigger RBs then Lee makes bullet sizers that fit in a press to size down bullets. It might speed up your process.

 

[Don]

$22.50 per pound for Swiss.

Don

 

[coloradoclyde]

And hey, Pyrodex is basically black powder with a few added ingredients,,,,, its basically black powder refined. Vast majority of the ingredients are the same....

Wow, you could study at least a little bit,

You have a case of what's called "Magnumitice", I see it in all of your posts, you've got the idea that more powder is always better. No amount of advice or experience will sway you to actually look at real results.
It's easy for anyone to go into an experiment and find the results they want to find when they have a premeditated goal.

Don't get me wrong, I like and use Pyrodex too, but I'll never compare it to black with that kind of broad brush simplicity.

Experiment with a few hundred rounds, not only with powders but charges, with accuracy as the goal,, keep the targets and do some real comparisons.

Your trying to tell people here that have been shooting ML and C&B guns since you where 6, what you have observed in just a few weeks.

I commend your efforts Necchi, but I think it fell on deaf ears. I have seen “magnumitice” many times and it is seldom curable with words of wisdom. It usually takes a scare, injury, or fatality. Even then the prognosis is grim.

 

[rodwha]

I guess Hazard's Pistol Podwer Co. never got that memo...

 

[necchi]

Your right, I stay far away from those guy's, especially the ones that say they do it because they're working up hunting loads.
Those are the ones that do a lot of hunting but darn little harvesting, :hmm:
They're usually to busy looking for something to kill with they're big load and forget to "hunt".

What ever trip's yer trigger dude, have fun. :v

 

[rodwha]

That's odd”¦ I'm a member of a percussion revolver hunting group that has quite the photo album. Must be stolen pics I guess.

Already gone through it with someone going on about their 1975 Lyman's reloading manual showing a .44 cal pistol can't get close to the 1050 fps with a ball as was asked. Come to find out the 2001 Lyman's manual shows that it is. Of course we all know how they've thrown caution to the wind.