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Wasting Powder in A 5.5 Inch 1858

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I agree, one of my favorite loads is 15 grains of 3F and 20 grains of cream of Wheat in my .44s for target work.
I need to run it over the Oehler one of these days but I would be surprised if it was going 600 fps.
I think if the chamber mouths are uniform at or .001 over groove diameter, the ball fits correctly and is seated to the end of the chamber mouth than a number of powder and filler charge ratios will work quite well. Mike D.
 
What ever Rod,
I load CF and have a chrono,
It just never occurred to me to be concerned with how much velocity and foot pounds I can get out of a C&B. It's kind of a moot point when one considers what those things where made for, sure the coup degras shot if needed or perhaps a special case of wanting to do a unique harvest, but our OP here has already made plenty of comments about self defense, large flashes and loud noises,
I've been around folks that shoot C&B for accuracy in competition and have never heard them talk about all the things that are being talked about here. Guy's that Bluster, fluff and chest thump about big loads are generally pretty quite or missing when the prizes are being passed out.
Everybody has a pocket group to show, but only some actually have the trophies.
 
Of course. Competition and hunting, as well as self defense, are all separate issues.

If my Remington '58 got the best groups with 20 grns and filler that's what I'd use if I were competing for X's. But I certainly wouldn't use it to hunt with as it wouldn't be very powerful.

I often see it called magnumitis when what it is is an ethical hunting load. It may not be as accurate, but it certainly needs to be powerful enough. And if you can keep a reasonable amount of accuracy why not?

So what if your groups go from being 2.5" at 25 yds to 4" when you've gone from 225 ft/lbs to 400.
 
"It just never occurred to me to be concerned with how much velocity and foot pounds I can get out of a C&B. It's kind of a moot point when one considers what those things where made for”¦"

Which was killing. Unlikely you would have seen 18 grn charges under a ball unless powder were in short supply or they were using 4F.

The Hazard Pistol Powder charges found in CW cartridges were akin to 4F Swiss as they were loading such small charges behind big conicals. Wouldn't have done them any good to use something like 3F standard Goex.
 
And that's it,
"Ethical" hunting?
With a 5.5" barrel?
When there are so many other choices available, truth is I know folks that hunt with handgun also,, and they're not C&B.

I guess it's fun to jaw about on a forum,
I'll bow out.
:v
 
Should there be another reason???

Yes a 5.5" handgun. Seems many for hunting are 6". So he lost 0.5"”¦ And when you look at the velocity difference between the same type of gun there's not a huge loss there by moving down from an 8" barrel. So mostly what you lose is sight radius. And if you need an additional 2.5" of sight radius to shoot within your desired group size from short range maybe you shouldn't be using a pistol. Range was never mentioned though, and so this could be as little as 15 yds. Maybe he hunts from a bow blind. I doubt he's shooting across a canyon.

That's fine if your friends don't hunt with a cap n ball pistol. It certainly doesn't mean that it cannot be done. I know of several who do, and they hunt hogs on foot with them.
 
Are you shooting for their eye or something? I'm not sure why you feel the need to use the most accurate load or set it aside calling it the wrong tool. That is assuming you can achieve reasonable accuracy with a reasonable load.
 
A few weeks ago I fired 14 5-round groups testing various loads from 15 to 35 grains with grease over the ball and with wads. Some of the tests also included Cream of Wheat to get the ball up to the chamber mouth.

What MY Pietta NMA (8") barrel liked best was 35 grains under a wad, the 5-shot group was under an inch. The next best closest group was an in larger, it was the 15 grain charge with CoW.

My Pietta NMA (5.5") also likes the hotter charges with it's tighter twist and 1 missing land and groove.

A few months ago similar tests were done with a Pietta Belt Revolver (6.5") in .36 caliber. It's tightest groups were with the most powder I could stuff into the chambers, did even better with conicals. Groups were tight with some touching.

All of them are bone stock, stock cones, forcing cones and the .44s have undersized chambers, while the .36s chamber is .002 over groove diameter; as are all of my Pietta Navy caliber revolvers.

Go figure. :idunno:
 
Capnballhunter said:
Make my own heavy wadcutters by heating and rolling/pounding .490 rifle balls into the proper diameter. Takes some time to get set up but I can punch out a few a minute with great consistency. ;)

I'm not trying to critisize,... but can you help me understand the logic behind this.....it seems like the long way round the barn?
 
I see nothing wrong with using a percussion revolver for hunting hogs and the like. Nor does everyone need to shot at a range with light loads and breakfast cereal in the gun. I shoot in my back yard why do I care if I win a trophy? I have no desire to compete with anyone but myself trying to do better each time.

There seems to be a bit if an elitest attitude here of paper punchers who think their way is the only way. Well honestly it's not. This is a hobby, for enjoyment, and just because you enjoy getting the most accuracy possible doesn't make it wrong because someone else enjoys getting the most power.

I mean, honestly, what a load of elitest manure. And don't pull the "used like they were designed" card unless you can show these revolvers were originally used to blow breakfast cereal at the target.
 
Hey guys thanks for all the responses on both sides of the issue. To clear up a few things. I mainly hunt with bp firearms and traditional archery, I consider 25-30 yd absolute max with handguns and bow. Rifled ml I will double that. I do hunt from a blind and get very close to the game.
I practice with my powerful hunting loads and at those ranges can and have made plenty of clean, ethical kills. I eat all the meat and utilize the hides (One of my jobs is in a custom leather shop, if you need awesome leather pm me).

As soon as my mold comes in from Accurate, I will be trying the smaller volume powder charge, heavier conical and ffffg Swiss a la Hazards Powder Company. :wink:

I like a small group as much as the next guy, but as a hunter more than a target shooter, to me the revolver is a tool, and I perceive real world practicality to be more important than tiny groups on paper. I would rather score a clean ethical kill than a high score at a match. Power is very important in taking an animals life with minimal suffering. If I couldn't hit well with hot loads at less than 25 yards, I would not hunt as such, if at all.
 
Oh and as far as making wadcutters out of .490 round balls. I took a block of aluminium stock and drilled a proper diameter hole in it. I heat the ball to a certain softness then pound it carefully into the tube over an anvil using a specially sized rod. I then punch them out and when hardened roll between two aluminum blocks to remove burrs and inconsistencies, i then cut a lube groove with a dremel, measure and weigh. It may be backwards but its just a hobby and its fun and it works real well.
 
As I mentioned, I've read the research done on Civil War pistol cartridges produced by Hazard's, and there certainly wasn't any Goex or cereal grains.

I'd also think that the .44 cal revolver that put down the grizzly bear with 2 shots that the soldiers using their .36 cal pistols couldn't as they found they couldn't penetrate through the fat and hide, wasn't using Goex and cereal grains either.
 
Mooman76 said:
Well, if it works for you and makes you happy doing it, then that's what counts. I mean that's why we are all here, because we are doing something we enjoy.


Amen to that :)
 
rodwha said:
As I mentioned, I've read the research done on Civil War pistol cartridges produced by Hazard's, and there certainly wasn't any Goex or cereal grains.

HAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!! Nearly fell off my chair :grin:
 
Capnballhunter said:
Oh and as far as making wadcutters out of .490 round balls. I took a block of aluminium stock and drilled a proper diameter hole in it. I heat the ball to a certain softness then pound it carefully into the tube over an anvil using a specially sized rod. I then punch them out and when hardened roll between two aluminum blocks to remove burrs and inconsistencies, i then cut a lube groove with a dremel, measure and weigh. It may be backwards but its just a hobby and its fun and it works real well.

Well I will give you an A+ for creativity, thanks for explaining.
I once made a ball mould in the field out of a piece of wood just to see if I could do it...and it worked.
 
I once made a ball mould in the field out of a piece of wood just to see if I could do it...and it worked.

Too much time in blind! Next time move to another location! :rotf:
 
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