Walmart CCI caps misfire

[Boom Stick]

Wal, er, China-Mart is more than likely selling cheap chinese knock off 'CCI' caps ..... it's in the name (from China-Mart / THEIR version) CCI = Cheap Chinese Industries

 

[Frontier's]

So I finally received and installed my new peep sights this week on my TC New Englander. Yesterday I sighted it in! Was supper pleased with the sights! Was not super pleased with caps!!!!!
4 shots in I ran out of the Remington caps I was given when I bought the gun a couple years ago. A month or so ago I bought some CCI caps at Walmart because they had them. I know a lot of the standard ammunition they sell is kind of factory seconds. Well on the low side of tolerance. Because I was on my way hunting and wanted extras I set the Walmart one of to the side. I had my dad pick me up some CCI from sportsman’s warehouse. Yesterday when I went out to sight my rifle I could only find the tin from Walmart.

First Walmart CCI cap was a miss fire. Used the nipple pic then tried second cap. It hung fired. The next five also hung fired. After the third hang fire I pulled the nipple, cleaned it and reinstalled.

So....... has any one else had issues with Walmart CCI caps?How about CCI caps from sportsman? Going back out hunting next week and really don’t want to miss a deer becouse of hang fires!!
Aaron

Stop blaming the cci caps, they are just as reliable as all the other caps.

You're using pyrodex which is harder to ignite.

Biggest problem, not all nipple designs are suited for pyrodex. If you are shooting pyrodex, upgrade to the knight redhot nipple as it flows smoother and transfers the cap flash to the powder, much more smoothly.

Not all nipples have the same diameter flash hole either.

I get so tired of hearing how bad cci caps are, when theres a handful of things that are the real problem.

 

[Frontier's]

Just an example of what Im talking about when it comes to flow.

Notice how the top nipple just comes to a small, pinched transition point? Thats bad, that causes the caps flash to actually bounce back up, toward the shooter. Some nipples, if you use a thin wire pick, will actually have a shoulder, or a shelf and causes the flash to bounce back even worse.

The hotshot nipple is solid for black powder and despite what I have been told ( that it was designed for pyrodex ) its an absolutely horrible design for pyrodex as the 2 vent holes at the top, dump even more gasses before it goes down the flash channel of the nipple.

 

[Tb54]

Would there be a problem if a guy ground a modern substitute powder, like pyrodex into a finer powder size—like with a mortar/pestle—and used 5 or 10 grains of it first down the bbl, then topped off the charge to the preferred load. Would that help ignition, or create a dangerous situation?

 

[Frontier's]

I surely would not do that. Pyrodex already is more powerful than goex. Its easier to change out a nipple than to grind up powder.

 

[FiremanBrad]

Stop blaming the cci caps, they are just as reliable as all the other caps.

You're using pyrodex which is harder to ignite.

Biggest problem, not all nipple designs are suited for pyrodex. If you are shooting pyrodex, upgrade to the knight redhot nipple as it flows smoother and transfers the cap flash to the powder, much more smoothly.

Not all nipples have the same diameter flash hole either.

I get so damn tired of hearing how bad cci caps are, when theres a handful of things that are the real problem.

Agreed!!

I had 3-4H ML shooters last summer. Between them they likely shot over 500 CCI caps with 3f black. We will shoot them again this coming year!

 

[Loja man]

I belive I have the hot shot nipple. Mine has the vent holes in the side. If I was changing to Tripple7 or real black powder should I change the nipple? If so any particular brand and style of nipple?

 

[Newtire]

I graduated from the small caps entirely long ago. Went to musket nipple and caps. Waterproof and lots of fire. That said, I have had a misfire or two with CCI musket caps, and as far as I am concerned they are only fit for reenactment guns. I use only RWS 1081's for hunting....never a hint of a problem lighting 100 gr. triple 7 in my .54 Hawken.

I made the mistake of buying Reenactor caps and they aren't worth a manure. Have to put a little 4f in them to get them to fire off the main charge. Then it's fffboom! Don't know why a reenactor would want that?

 

[Grenadier1758]

I belive I have the hot shot nipple. Mine has the vent holes in the side. If I was changing to Tripple7 or real black powder should I change the nipple? If so any particular brand and style of nipple?

Now that you have trimmed the cone in your nipple and verified that it has the two holes like the Hot Shot nipple, your cap should be covering those holes. While I agree with @Frontier's that you don't want your hot gases necessarily going out the side of your nipple rather than having flames follow the flash channel, the race for flame to get through the nipple into the flash channel is faster than the time it takes for even that thin copper foil to open up. As I have stated in earlier posts, the Hot Shot, Spitfire and Red Hot nipples work just fine when using real GOEX Black powder. I would change your nipple because it has mushroomed. Your CVA Mountain Rifle likely has a metric nipple of 6x1.0. Make sure you get the correct threads for your nipple. After all you did trim the tip and cap is being pushed further on the cone.

No expected problems should arise with GOEX 3fg black powder. I have no experience with Triple Seven.

I am confident that you will have far more reliable performance with GOEX than Triple Seven or Pyrodex. With a really clean rifle, it may be hard to tell. But if you are not shooting up a pound of powder in a season and expect to use that powder for a couple of years, only the GOEX powder will have the same performance two years from now.

 

[stink koat]

triple 7 is notorious for hang fires and misfires in side locks and pyrodex can also be an issue though works better in side locks though real Black powder is much more reliable than either of these substitutes its hard to find in some places .Tripple 7 is very easy to clean with less fowling than real black powder and not as corrosive it is not reliable in many traditional muzzle loaders TC s have issues with some If you don't flush your breech out they are notorious for not going off you have to keep the venting and fire way as well as the nipple clear these rifles are known not to go bang if you don‘t.If all you can get is pyrodex Rs clean your rifle well pay attention to your breech fire way and nipple replace your nipple for no 11 caps with one for musket caps which are more reliable hotter spark and More spark TC made them never never buy cci musket caps never the german caps are vastly superior musket cap s cci caps are the worst and most unreliable musket caps on the market .their no 11 caps are good the magnum cci no 11 caps are pretty good and might help you as well .Ive seen some people say that pyrodex dose not fowl your bore as bad as black powder this is false andwill cause rust if neglected just as bad or worse than real stuff that is an absolutely a fact .Ive been around black powder guns since middle 1960s been an active and successful gunsmith since early seventies Still at it worked on many TCs great rifle but you really need to take care of them as can be said of most of their kind .l have pulled stuck ball s out of barrels taken out rusted nipples been good business for a long time .

JUST SWITCH TO "REAL BLACK POWDER" like GOEX and stop dikken around and wasting your time already! ITS NOT THAT HARD OF A PROBLEM!

 

[Newtire]

Now that you have trimmed the cone in your nipple and verified that it has the two holes like the Hot Shot nipple, your cap should be covering those holes. While I agree with @Frontier's that you don't want your hot gases necessarily going out the side of your nipple rather than having flames follow the flash channel, the race for flame to get through the nipple into the flash channel is faster than the time it takes for even that thin copper foil to open up. As I have stated in earlier posts, the Hot Shot, Spitfire and Red Hot nipples work just fine when using real GOEX Black powder. I would change your nipple because it has mushroomed. Your CVA Mountain Rifle likely has a metric nipple of 6x1.0. Make sure you get the correct threads for your nipple. After all you did trim the tip and cap is being pushed further on the cone.

No expected problems should arise with GOEX 3fg black powder. I have no experience with Triple Seven.

I am confident that you will have far more reliable performance with GOEX than Triple Seven or Pyrodex. With a really clean rifle, it may be hard to tell. But if you are not shooting up a pound of powder in a season and expect to use that powder for a couple of years, only the GOEX powder will have the same performance two years from now.

Amen to that. Black MZ doesn't seem to go bad though. If it clumps up, all I've ever had to do is shake it up. At 9.95 a pound, it was about the best bargain I ever came across and it keeps on going boom!

 

[renegadehunter]

CCI caps are CCI caps. Walmart gets caps that have gone through the exact same QC process as any other customer. CCI is ISO (International Organization for Standardization) certified and isn't going to risk that certification by selling components that don't meet their set QC standards.
They also will only sell seconds that are safe and function mostly as designed. "Mostly as designed" means most seconds just have labeling flaws or some other cosmetic issue, although I've seen some seconds ammo that had a "poor accuracy" label. They just scrap components that won't go pop or bang, too much liability in a bullet in bore condition that they could get sued for. They won't even offer seconds in their employee only store if function is one of the things affected by a QC problem. I've also never seen a seconds item that isn't clearly labeled "seconds".

Like said above, if the cap is going "pop" every time, then the problem is elsewhere.
Something I didn't see mentioned is the possibility that you are pushing fouling into the flame channel when running your cleaning patches between shots. A tight fitting jag/patch combo will certainly do that...which is every single factory jag I've ever bought. I struggled with the same issues you encountered, usually started around the 4th or 5th shot, until I started turning my jags down a bit (something I learned about on this site). I think this may be your issue and it is just pure coincidence that you happened to switch cap brands around the time it started.

To find out if your swabbing is what's causing the problem, next time you go shooting use the exact same components and loading/cleaning procedures as last time, except this time after swabbing the bore pop a cap before loading. Point the barrel at a leaf or dry patch you placed on the ground and make sure it moves when you pop the cap. If the leaf moves, I'll bet you'll find that the following shot goes off just fine. Popping a cap after swabbing often clears the crud that was pushed into the flame channel.
In this current situation where caps are tough to find in some areas, then if the above method shows that it is indeed your patch/jag combo that is causing the problem when you swab, then do a search here on this forum for how to turn your jag down.

 

[1853enfield]

ok question i have taken nipples put them in my lathe and with a number drill opened them just a small amount. i must say made quite a difference.. it caused no problems the hammer didnt go back and all was well. is this some thing i should never do? at one time i knew the size of the wire drill but cant remember. for sure it was not a whole lot bigger than the factory hole but sure helped. anyone have any thing to add as to why this can cause a problem. thanks in advance. joe in Washington ( state not the other one )

 

[Frontier's]

if your hammer spring is strong enough to hold the pressure, no problems. Originals had up to a 3/16" flash hole compared to todays flash hole sizes of .028 - .035" which causes most of the troubles.

 

[1853enfield]

if your hammer spring is strong enough to hold the pressure, no problems. Originals had up to a 3/16" flash hole compared to todays flash hole sizes of .028 - .035" which causes most of the troubles.

thanks for the reply i was pretty sure i was on the right track but wanted to make sure. the hole in standard nipple flat gets clogged to easily. i have the wire size drills to open them up enough to help.

 

[Loja man]

So I was able to shoot the rifle Sunday afternoon. My brother, father, nephew and I were shooting our side locks. My dad had a new jug of Tripple7 FFFG so I chose to use that for now. When loading I made sure to slap the stock before ramming the ball. Also after spit patching the barrel I made sure that the flash channel and nipple were clean as well. I think I had one slight hang fire.
With the triple 7 I had to cut my load by 10 grains in my mesure compared to the Pyrodex that I using. Also I noticed that by shot 4 my my pattern would open way up and be erratic. I would spit patch the barrel and things would close back up again. Do other see this with Tripple 7?
Aaron

 

[Grenadier1758]

The fouling is building up in the barrel. Yes we do see accuracy loss when the bore is fouled. That's why some of us wipe the bore between shots. Some wipe every third or fourth shot. Some use a fairly wet patch for the ball to wipe fouling down on the powder. You will have to decide on the loading procedure that best fits your shooting.

Glad to see you are getting better firing performance.

 

[renegadehunter]

I can only get two accurate shots out of my Renegade (I use Goex) before groups open up quite a bit. When first starting dummy me had developed a load and sighted in at the range swabbing between shots. Then I would go to a club shoot and not swab because the two guys I shot with acted like it was a race to load and shoot the rifle course. I didn't want to hold them up so I didn't bother swabbing. I would normally hit the first two or three targets just fine, but then it was a miracle if I hit another one.
I finally went back to the range and tested what was happening when I didn't swab. The first two would hit POA, then the third would jump to the left about 4"-6", and the fourth shot I fired was clear off my entire target, meaning it had missed POA by over 12" at about 40 yards. I've read time and again that a tight fitting patch/ball combo will scrape the fouling down when loading and keep the bore fouling consistent but my rifle sure doesn't agree. My patch/ball combo would require a mallet to start if I went up anymore in patch thickness. I've tried all kinds of different patch/ball combos, along with patch lubes, and my rifle simply likes to have a fairly clean bore. Swabbing also all but eliminates the chances of a cook off. In the beginning it bugged me a bit that I couldn't get away with not swabbing, but it doesn't bother me at all these days.

 

[Carbon 6]

Wal, er, China-Mart is more than likely selling cheap chinese knock off 'CCI' caps ..... it's in the name (from China-Mart / THEIR version) CCI = Cheap Chinese Industries

I highly doubt that.

 

[Treestalker]

Stop blaming the cci caps, they are just as reliable as all the other caps.

You're using pyrodex which is harder to ignite.

Biggest problem, not all nipple designs are suited for pyrodex. If you are shooting pyrodex, upgrade to the knight redhot nipple as it flows smoother and transfers the cap flash to the powder, much more smoothly.

Not all nipples have the same diameter flash hole either.

I get so tired of hearing how bad cci caps are, when theres a handful of things that are the real problem.

I used to have Remington caps lose their priming before they even got to the gun. Never had a problem with CCI or Dynamit- Nobel caps. I just recently -two weeks ago-bought a bunch of CCI # 11 caps at the local WalMart. Today I was loading my Rem. 1858 when I noticed one of the CCI's had lost it's prime. Sure enough, I found it in one piece laying on my table. Never had a CCI cap separate before. It does not engender confidence, and when I load my guns for bumps in the night, I always use Dynamit- Nobel's caps. And I only use Goex and some older Elephant black powder.