Ultimate pistol

[himem777]

Hammer? I do not want the deer to suffer any more than necessary. While I do bow hunt, so I am used to having to track a deer. But if the the deer dies in place thats cool to. I am realistic enough as a hunter to know how to track.

I Know that in this day and age of magnum mania people are used to the Idea of an ethical kill being one where the deer drops as soon as the adrenalin runs out, but I learned to hunt with a bow so I learned to find the deer when the blood runs out. Can not imagine elk are any different, but like I said I am new.

Just as a side note I hunt for food. I have never harvested an animal for its rack, I can not eat antler. I say this to let you know I am a hunter, not a trophy hunter.

PS:Thanks for the advice, I really do appreciate it. If this reply sounds snarky or arrogant it is not my intention. I am much better conveying my meanings in person.

 

[himem777]

Thanks capper. The reason for the pistol is because of the terrain where I am at. In the few places where it is flat there are houses and ranches. The hunting land is an up and down thing. I am not as sure footed as I used to be.

 

[bigbore442001]

Hmm. You want to build a specialty pistol for hunting but with a design of the early 1800s to follow tradition.

Ok. This is what I would do. I would build a special underhammer single shot pistol. I am not sure what manner of underhammer action but I would have the barrel at 16" with a slight taper and in either .50 or .54 caliber. The twist would be at a rate to use conical bullets. Also to make it a little more balanced I would try to have the trigger and hammer assembly under the barrel and to have the nipple drilled and tapped into the portion of the barrel in the middle of what would be a good hunting charge of powder at 100 plus grains. I would use a 350 grain soft lead conical under such a charge for hunting.

As far as sights are concerned I would use a fine bead and a fine U notch rear. Such an arm in my opinion would have the ballistics of a hot loaded 44 magnum out of a long barrel. Many people have taken such game with similar handguns at an appropriate range.

 

[himem777]

An under hammer....HMM Why an under hammer is there an advantage? I have no experience with them.

 

[himem777]

Sorry guys just re read my own post, it dose sound arrogant.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

at least .54 cal and barrel around 10" or so to let the powder get burnt well enough to send the prb out at around 1,000 fps.
and as placement is everything some good sights and no further than around 50' or so.

 

[Mattole]

Hammer? I do not want the deer to suffer any more than necessary. While I do bow hunt, so I am used to having to track a deer. But if the the deer dies in place thats cool to. I am realistic enough as a hunter to know how to track.

I Know that in this day and age of magnum mania people are used to the Idea of an ethical kill being one where the deer drops as soon as the adrenalin runs out, but I learned to hunt with a bow so I learned to find the deer when the blood runs out. Can not imagine elk are any different, but like I said I am new.

I really mean no offense, but if you are used to having to track your deer when you are hunting with a bow, you may need to work on more accurate shot placement. My experience is that an arrow placed in the vitals of even an elk usually doesn't require much tracking, as the elk usually expires in well under 100 yards.

It does not take a mega magnum for a deer or elk to 'drop when the adrenaline runs out' - whatever that means. A quick and humane 'ethical' death is always about shot placement (with an appropriate projectile used within its effective range), rendering either massive damage to the central nervous system or rapid and fatal blood loss. Magnum mania is not needed, and in fact often interferes with accurate shot placement because of the recoil factor.

A well-placed broadhead will create the necessary blood loss just fine, and I am fortunate to say I have never had to track an animal, be it boar, deer or elk, more than 40 yards. I'm not trying to brag about my prowess as a bowhunter, I'm just saying that a well-placed arrow will kill very quickly. So far I've been lucky that my arrows have gone where they needed to go (may it always be so).

But back to muzzleloading: I do hope that if you are used to doing extensive tracking of your animals from your time as a bowhunter (usually indicating a marginal hit) that you won't use that experience as your standard for hunting elk with a muzzleloader.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

some years back I saw a video of a broadhead launched by a crossbow zipping into and 1/3rd way through a 5gallon mud bucket packed full with sand.. a 30-30 150 gr sp jacketed was stopped.

 

[himem777]

Thanks for the input your right I really am a marginal hunter. And yes I learned to be a good tracker because of mine and my friends poor shooting. I am glad to hear that Elk are about as easy as deer just bigger. I have gotten better as I have aged, a little.


Now this was a nice nice side track what pistol would you use.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Elk are not as easy as deer. It takes more fire power.

 

[Mattole]

If you're a poor shot you owe it to the animals you hunt to become a better shot. If you are a poor shot with a bow chances are you are going to be a poor shot with a muzzleloader pistol that is powerful enough to penetrate the vitals of an elk. In my humble opinion you should not be sending any projectiles towards animals unless you have the skill level to not wound what you are shooting at. Simply launching an arrow or a bullet at a game animal without having the skill to make a quick kill is morally indefensible.

If you look over the advice you have received you will see that several experienced folks here are saying that NO muzzleloading pistol is really suitable for ethically hunting elk, especially at the range and skill level that you have indicated.

It sounds like making a humane kill of your prey is not a great concern for you, which I think is highly unfortunate for the animals you hunt and for the sport of hunting, which is plenty tarnished enough in the public eye.

 

[himem777]

Is It just a matter of sizing everything up. Because the old guys think that .44 with 35 grms and a 180grn conical was enoph for elk. You would think .50 225grn with 60 grns pushing it would be better.

 

[himem777]

OK here is the rest of the story. This Forum has enough arrogant people who think they know it all. I did not want you to put me in this group. While I am not God's gift to shooting I am better than I let on.

Deer can be tougher than most "experts" think, I have personally shot a deer at 30 yards right in the boiler room (double lung missed the heart, but not by much) with a 180 grn Winchester 8X57 simi jacketed bullet. The bullet did what it was supposed. The Deer still traveled a lot more than 40 yards, lots more. That is just one example.

As for my shooting... In side 100 yards I can put a bullet within 2 inches of where I was looking to hit. With several guns. Except for my 308 Mauser that one goes farther (it has a scope). Sorry for leading you astray I just did not want to puff myself up.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Traveling 40 yds with a lung shot is normal. You should know that.

I still say hunting elk with a ML pistol is a bad idea.

I wouldn't use less than a .54 rifle with 90 gr of 3F, but that's me.

 

[mtmshieldshotmail.com]

some years back I saw a video of a broadhead launched by a crossbow zipping into and 1/3rd way through a 5gallon mud bucket packed full with sand.. a 30-30 150 gr sp jacketed was stopped.

Yep, this is what folks miss when they point to the relative low energy of a bow/arrow and think, "if that amount of energy is OK to hunt with, then my _____ (enter any weapon here)_____ that's quadruple the energy must be OK, too." An arrow is basically a flying knife that will cut a clean 1 1/4 inch hole that will not close up, and will bleed out very quickly. Bullets/Balls create wound channels that are not cut, and can close back up. The 100yd death run after a bow shot, may be more like 1mile after a small cal, underpowered gun shot (and death may be slower coming). Like Capper said, think of the animal.
Regards,
Mike

 

[himem777]

Lots of good points, But I really was looking for advice on a pistol type. Since we know that there are many pistols that can do what I am looking for at much much greater ranges, I just wanted to know what would be the best for the job, within the purview of this forum?

 

[Pete Gaimari]

We're trying to say there isn't one best for the job. You don't seem to like the answers.

TC Contender 30-06 is the best for the job.

BP pistol = fail.

I believe you're going to wound an elk, and maybe never find it.

 

[himem777]

Are there any any BP guns that can get a 225 grm bullet up to 1500 fps?

 

[Zonie]

"
Are there any any BP guns that can get a 225 grm bullet up to 1500 fps? "
--------------------

Yup.
Lymans "Black Powder Handbook" shows many of them.

How about a 24" 1:48 twist .54 caliber rifle shooting a 230 grain roundball? 70 grains of 3Fg = 1553 fps. 80 grians of 3Fg = 1622 fps.

Bare in mind these rifles have a long enough barrel to utilize these powder loads to accelerate the ball. Short barreled guns with these large powder loads will never achieve these velocities because the ball has left the barrel long before all of the powder has been burned.

 

[himem777]

Thats 44mag specs, but no way to do it under 16 inches of barrel.