Thuer Conversion

[jaxenro]

I was looking at pictures of a few of these this morning, along with the cartridges and loading tools, and it got me thinking. Even though it fires a self contained cartridge, it loads from the muzzle and actually I think still uses the rammer. Where would these fall in the scheme of things with the BATF? Modern cartridge gun or muzzleloader?

 

[Don]

Never heard of these, do you have a pic or diagram of one?

Don

 

The Thuer was not a good idea in the 1860s abnd it is still not a good idea. It gives little advantage over the prerolled cartridges offered at that time.

The Mason conversion quickly overshadowed the system for good reason.

 

[John Taylor]

If you can go to the local sporting goods store and buy the ammo off the shelf then the BATF might be interested, but if the gun was sold before 1899 then they don't care. This applies to fixed ammo with the primer. If you are using a percussion cap it is not fixed ammo.

 

[jaxenro]

The Theur used a front loaded tapered cartridge that was loaded similar to the normal comubstible cartridge. The cartride contained bullet, powder, and cap or primer. It is often found cased with the loading tools necessary to load the cartridges yourself from components. It was a Colt attempt to get around bored through cylinders and still offer a self contained cartridge. No, it wasn't the best system and was quickly superseded by the superior Mason, Richards - Mason, et all.

My question was more academic than practical, especially as no one is making them. What do you think a modern made gun would be classified as? The 1872 open tops, as well as 1851's with a factory conversion cylinder installed are classified as firearms, muzzleloaders are not. I was wondering if the Thuer is fish or fowl?

(one can be found here)
[url] http://www.gmartin-auctions.com/premdec03/lot1076.html[/url]

 

[John Taylor]

"Antique firearm" means a firearm or replica of a firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including any match lock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar ignition system and also any fire arm using fixed amunition manufactured in or before 1898, FOR WHICH AMUNITION IS NO LONGER MANUFACTURED IN THE UNITED STATES AND IS NOT READILY AVAILABLE IN THE ORDINARY CHANNELS OF COMMERCIAL TRADE.
When I first started doing conversions I checked with BATF. If the frame of your replica is not altered you are not creating a firearm. If you alter the frame and make it shoot modern ammo you need a manufacture license. If you make it to shoot old ammo that can't be bought at the local sporting goods store then you don't need a license. In other word if you make it to a 45 Colt you are making it into a modern fire arm but if you go with a 44 Colt it remains an antque.
Better check with your local laws, they may say something ells.