Learned Some "Smarts" Today

[PastorB]

This morning I tried some of my cast Kerr .44 bullets (225 gr.) in my stock Pietta 1860 Army. It has always been a great shooter with round balls. Now, I have shot 100's of the Kerr bullets through my Pietta 1858 Remington with great results, but today was the first time trying them on the 1860.

Started off with 25 grains (volume for everything) of 777 3f, shooting over the chrono. First shot 917 fps, second 883, but then velocity fell off rapidly with remaining 4 shots, below 600 fps by the sixth shot. Hmmm. Maybe oil in the chamber, even though I popped caps. Tried another cylinder, same results. Must be bad powder, so I switch to Pyro P. First shot 815 fps, then falling to 583fps by sixth shot. I guess I'm slow today, because I have never had these kind of results before, and I should have realized something "Wonky" was going on. But instead, I decide maybe my Pyro P is bad, even though I have used it for decades with no issues. Go and retrieve some brand new, unopened, Swiss 3f. First shot 807 fps, then the same reduction in velocity until the 6th shot. Go to cock the hammer, and it will not come back. Cap jam? Nope, the Kerr bullet is halfway out of the cylinder, rattling loose! They all shaved lead when loaded, but apparently they are coming loose under recoil, losing their gas seal, and I'm getting the results I have reported. Very fortunate not to have a chain fire. Once I finally figured out what was going on, I loaded another cylinder, and checked the bullets after each shot. They were wiggling around and I could move them with a small stick in the chamber. Usually, I'm a faster learner than that. DUH!! Lucky nothing more unfortunate happened.

I have shot hundreds of the Kerr Bullets in my Pietta 1858, no issues with accurate and consistent results. Learned I should never make assumptions, same manufacturer, you would think the chambers are sized the same. They are not, and I measured to ascertain that fact. The 1860 will be a round ball shooter (.457, which it does very well with) from here on out. Don't be a dummy like me, if something odd is happening, get to the bottom of it while you still got all your eyes and fingers!

 

[n.h.schmidt]

I have some thoughts on this. It's likely that you have some taper in the chambers,so even a small movement will loosen the bullets up. All but one of my revolvers have some taper in them. That is measuring at the mouth and down to where the. ball would stop with powder in the chamber. Some of the guns have as much as .004 taper in just that half inch.. Some shooters like a chamfer at the mouth of the chamber. No lead is shaved off so lead is squeezed down for a tighter fit. I have had three Euroarms from the 70s that had that from the factory. My later Pietta Guns ( a 1851 and 1860) are lead shavers. I have wondered if it' a mistake to have the chambers too smooth. After all we do depend on friction to keep them balls and bullets in place

 

[M. De Land]

This morning I tried some of my cast Kerr .44 bullets (225 gr.) in my stock Pietta 1860 Army. It has always been a great shooter with round balls. Now, I have shot 100's of the Kerr bullets through my Pietta 1858 Remington with great results, but today was the first time trying them on the 1860.

Started off with 25 grains (volume for everything) of 777 3f, shooting over the chrono. First shot 917 fps, second 883, but then velocity fell off rapidly with remaining 4 shots, below 600 fps by the sixth shot. Hmmm. Maybe oil in the chamber, even though I popped caps. Tried another cylinder, same results. Must be bad powder, so I switch to Pyro P. First shot 815 fps, then falling to 583fps by sixth shot. I guess I'm slow today, because I have never had these kind of results before, and I should have realized something "Wonky" was going on. But instead, I decide maybe my Pyro P is bad, even though I have used it for decades with no issues. Go and retrieve some brand new, unopened, Swiss 3f. First shot 807 fps, then the same reduction in velocity until the 6th shot. Go to cock the hammer, and it will not come back. Cap jam? Nope, the Kerr bullet is halfway out of the cylinder, rattling loose! They all shaved lead when loaded, but apparently they are coming loose under recoil, losing their gas seal, and I'm getting the results I have reported. Very fortunate not to have a chain fire. Once I finally figured out what was going on, I loaded another cylinder, and checked the bullets after each shot. They were wiggling around and I could move them with a small stick in the chamber. Usually, I'm a faster learner than that. DUH!! Lucky nothing more unfortunate happened.

I have shot hundreds of the Kerr Bullets in my Pietta 1858, no issues with accurate and consistent results. Learned I should never make assumptions, same manufacturer, you would think the chambers are sized the same. They are not, and I measured to ascertain that fact. The 1860 will be a round ball shooter (.457, which it does very well with) from here on out. Don't be a dummy like me, if something odd is happening, get to the bottom of it while you still got all your eyes and fingers!

My new Walker Uberti has tapered or reduced diameter chambers below ball seat, even with chamber mouth. If I push them into reduced load levels they are swaged undersize and back out from recoil.
I've been using a .45 Colt ACP bullet and when fully seated the base is stopped at the reduced diameter, down in the chamber. They are short enough to not have the base resized and so shoot very well to the 25 yards thus tested.
The Walker chambers are very uniform with each other and alignment excellent.
I may at some point ream them out to level with the mouth diameter, farther down chamber.

 

[AlexB]

I have had problems with the Kerr and lee .45 backing far enough out of a Pietta 58 to jam the cylinder.
The Kerr is .457 which surprised me as .454 roundball has never done it in that pistol.
I suspect its the mass as it's noticeably harder to load the Kerr and shaves a larger ring.

 

[M. De Land]

I have had problems with the Kerr and lee .45 backing far enough out of a Pietta 58 to jam the cylinder.
The Kerr is .457 which surprised me as .454 roundball has never done it in that pistol.
I suspect its the mass as it's noticeably harder to load the Kerr and shaves a larger ring.

My guess is the reduced diameter of the chambers is swaging down your bullet base when seating and allowing them to back out as the grip is lost in the larger diameter forward section of the chamber.

 

[PastorB]

As a follow up to yesterday's poor results with the Kerr Bullets in my 1860 Pietta Army, I went out back and shot some roundball today. I am blessed to be able to shoot off my back deck, and it is exactly 50 yards from my rail to the target. Tried 3 different powders, all 32 grain volume measured, which is what that particular spout throws. Got good consistent results, and no balls (.457) rolling out the front of the chamber. Well actually, the 777 was not a top notch performer, with wild velocity swings. High of 1142 to a low of 899, with the first and last (1087) being the fastest. The Swiss 3f and Pyro P were as usual very reliable performers, with average velocities of 900 and 920 fps respectively, with little deviation. Got what I consider good accuracy with the Swiss and Pyro P (torso shots), not as good with the 777 (head shots). This particular Colt repro shoots right to the POA from the muzzle to 50 yards or better, and it is my second favorite revolver after my Pietta 1851 Navy in .36.