Target shooting. Roundball .440 vs .445

[davesonic4444]

With a properly fitted patch and same lube will one ball shoot better groups than the other? I will be testing later in the season. Just currious what others have found.

 

[Beaverman2]

With a properly fitted patch and same lube will one ball shoot better groups than the other? I will be testing later in the season. Just currious what others have found.

All depends on the rifle, take the time to work up a load

 

[Banjoman]

Depends on the rifle. In my Jukar .45 caliber rifle, I use 45 grains of 3f, a .440 home cast lead round ball and spit lubed cotton patch. From a sand bag rest it will shoot two inch (and sometimes one inch) groups at 50 yards.

 

[davesonic4444]

I have a load that will cloverleaf at 50 yrds. But have extra balls and thought it would be interesting experiment. The gun is a TC renegade with a 45 Green Mountain barrel.

 

[Gtrubicon]

I have 3 different 45 cal rifles, 2 prefer 440, the other likes 445.

 

[davesonic4444]

I have 3 different 45 cal rifles, 2 prefer 440, the other likes 445.

Do they use the same thickness of patch?

 

[Nobade]

Rifling form and of course actual dimensions have a lot to do with it. Of three 45 caliber rifles I have, two work great with .440 balls and the TC with the very shallow rifling likes .445 a lot better.

 

[Gtrubicon]

Do they use the same thickness of patch?

Yes

 

[oldwood]

My .45 silhouette rifle liked .440 , w/ .012 minimal grease patch and 60 gr. FFFG.

 

[Schaefer]

A lead ball will expand to fill the grooves. Having to beat the hell out of the ball to get it to seat will leaves marks on the ball that can effect your group. Also if your patch is showing lots of burn and gas leak marks your group will also suffer. Consistency of chamber pressure is very important in good repeatable shooting.

 

[Marplot]

What does a shredded patch mean? (Round Ball)

 

[longcruise]

The three factors; 1 actual bore size. 2 actual patch thickness and toughness. 3 actual ball size.

With either size ball you should be able to pull a good combination together.

 

[longcruise]

What does a shredded patch mean? (Round Ball)

It can mean that the muzzle is rough and loading is damaging the patch and final shredding is happening on the outbound trip.

It might mean that the rifling is sharp and ditto the above.

Could be that the patch is so thin that it's not performing the function of the patch at all.

Could mean the patch material is weak and of low quality. Not performing it's function.

These are all issues that are often addressed with "load development". Varying powder charges, powder type, granulation, patch material, lube, etc. A best result can be found but not necessarily a good one.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I agree with @longcruise.

Also, the crown can be sharp at the muzzle and cutting a circular tear. One needs to gather up the patches after shooting the rifle to see if the patch is doing its job to seal the bore and to hold the ball.

 

[flatcreek]

I think they both should shoot about the same. .440 with say a .018 patch and a .445 with .015 should be about the same. Will be interesting to see the results of you trail.

 

[oldramrod]

My Douglas barreled target rifle likes ..445 the CVA and T.C.,s like .440

 

[hwb13]

I'm still kinda new at this, but when I first got my pedersoli kentucky I was shooting .445 with .010 patches. The day came when dry balled ,we all do it, but we we pulled the ball the rifling was dug well into the ball. Went to .440 ball with the same patch. Loaded much easier and group sizes got better.

 

[Grenadier1758]

One of the better expenditures one can spend for this hobby is a reasonably good digital vernier caliper. For $25 one can get one that reads US standard and metric. It will measure outside dimensions, inside dimensions, and depth. There's a number of vendors that sell them. Harbor Freight, Midway USA and probably several others. We can measure patch thickness, bore diameter, barrel dimensions, frizzen width, length from the jaw screw to the face of the frizzen, ball diameter and more.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Both could be made to shoot, just that one might be far easier to tune! Recommend you read up my posts on Load Development.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/importance-of-‘load-development’-to-find-the-best-group.169960/

 

[SDSmlf]

A lead ball will expand to fill the grooves.

You want the patch material to fill the grooves and grip the ball. You will see the imprint of the fabric weave on the ball if you pull it after loading where the lands in the bore compressed the patch.

Also if your patch is showing lots of burn and gas leak marks your group will also suffer.

Usually because the patch is too thin and not filling the grooves in the bore.