T/C Trouble's

[Bigpete]

BIGPETE , i have been shooting a T/C .36 Seneca for about 3 years and have no problem with accuracy ! Thing i noticed first , was your powder charge , about double what it should be . Next , was your choice (2F) , try some 3F in a small caliber. In all truth i have switched to "TripleF , 3F sub powder in my .32 , .36 , and .45 cal rifles !! And no , i have nothing against "black" , except in my area there is hardly ANY supply support for muzzle loader shooters, at the top of Maine . Don't know how much this may affect accuracy , but , do you shoot your home spun round-balls with the sprue sticking out ??? When i cast , no matter the caliber , i have an old file clamped in my vise to drag the sprue over to remove it . May not help accuracy , but sure does not hurt it ! Hope this helped !

You clearly didn't read too much

 

[Nor'Easter]

You clearly didn't read too much

- I notice that on alot of forums! But then I pretty much stepped in it myself there a couple of posts back!
- I agree with you that it is not likely a "load developement" problem. That's what I kept being told about the WMC, then I found out about the 1:20 twist. Physics are physics, and the math just does not work for a .50cal 1:20 twist in a 21" muzzleloader BP barrel. So after spending more on powder and lead than spent for the rifle I ended up with meh accuracy.
- I would shoot 4-5 rounds and get those patches. They should be no more 10-15' in front of the barrel on the ground. Post the pictures here and see what some of the experienced think. Bill

 

[BadDaditood]

Those small calibers foul up fast.
Wiping between shots can help get an accuracy baseline (with new nipple of course)
It is also entirely possible that the rifle is junk!!!
Good luck!

 

[Bigpete]

Those small calibers foul up fast.
Wiping between shots can help get an accuracy baseline (with new nipple of course)
It is also entirely possible that the rifle is junk!!!
Good luck!

I hope its not junk,its not easy to just go buy another rifle over here

 

[Nor'Easter]

I hope its not junk,its not easy to just go buy another rifle over here

I don't think I've ever heard of a bad TC barrel. Not saying they are not out there, just have not heard of it. I still wonder about there being a choke point in the barrel. There's two dovetails - the front sight and the barrel wedge that could be problems. A very tight fitting patch run down the barrel will tell. My understanding and experience is that a barrel with any choke in it will not produce good accuracy. The tighter the choke the more it effects accuracy. It would help if you provided a brief list of what you can or cannot do "over there', so you don't get a bunch recommendations that you are unable to do. Bill

 

[FishDFly]

There are problem TC barrels out there.

I bought a TC Seneca .32 which came out of Fox Fox Ridge Outfitters, (TC Custom Shop) here and the barrel would not shoot. The 1st owner gave up on the barrel and sent it to Ed Rayl to have it re-bored to .40. It was fine after that.

 

[Crow-Feather]

Just recently bought a .36 T/C Hawken,and I'm having the devils own trouble getting it to shoot good groups. I've only got access to Wano 2f,and I'm using home cast Lyman .350 round ball. To get it to shoot any good at all I'm having to use 70gn of 2f and a 20 thou patch,but that's blowing the hammer back to half cock and is a real pain in the butt to load after 2 shots. 35gn of 2f just will not shoot at all,we're talking 4 or 5 inch groups at 25m. I don't have ready access to myriads of different powders and projectiles like you guys in the USA do,so I'm adamant to make it work. My next try I'll be using a flask that measures 21gn per load,and trying some 3mm thick leather wads between the powder and ball,as doing that has helped in the past. Does anyone else have one of these rifles,and if so,what load do you use and did you have heaps of trouble like I seem to be ? I'm not new to this,my 2 .50 cals will shoot 1½ to 2" at 50m when I'm shooting well,I even get my 12g Grundmann shotgun to shoot reasonably well at 25m,so I'm really perplexed as to why this 36 cal is giving me trouble. Help please !

The patch needs to crush into the grooves to spin when fired. The patch has to grip the ball tight enough that the patch spin is transferred to the ball for good accuracy. When fired, the pressure of the explosion obturates the ball causing a super tight ball patch fit. If the patch has a hole where the bottom of the ball sits, your lube is not working causing the patch to burn. If the patch is cut on the sides, the lands are cutting the patch and will smooth out with use. But with the accuracy improving with higher pressure, I would believe that your patch is too thin which isn't forcing the ball to spin. Try a patch with Pillow Ticking .017 to .022 thick. You can find pillow ticking at any store selling cloth. Wash the ticking about 2-3 times to get the sizing out and the material will be able to fully absorb any liquid lube. I prefer moose milk (10-20% water soluble cutting oil and 90-80% water with a dash of liquid dish soap).

 

[BadDaditood]

The patch needs to crush into the grooves to spin when fired. The patch has to grip the ball tight enough that the patch spin is transferred to the ball for good accuracy. When fired, the pressure of the explosion obturates the ball causing a super tight ball patch fit. If the patch has a hole where the bottom of the ball sits, your lube is not working causing the patch to burn. If the patch is cut on the sides, the lands are cutting the patch and will smooth out with use. But with the accuracy improving with higher pressure, I would believe that your patch is too thin which isn't forcing the ball to spin. Try a patch with Pillow Ticking .017 to .022 thick. You can find pillow ticking at any store selling cloth. Wash the ticking about 2-3 times to get the sizing out and the material will be able to fully absorb any liquid lube. I prefer moose milk (10-20% water soluble cutting oil and 90-80% water with a dash of liquid dish soap).

Pretty sure the heavy loads were due to the worn out nipple. He has a new one (?)
Stuck with only Wano 2f but Still lots of suggestions to try, especially wiping between shots and different patch thickness.
If you can’t find mattress ticking go rock star in a hotel room and cut around the stains. Toss the TV in the pool while you’re at it!

 

[Critter Getter]

I assembled a TC Cherokee in .45 caliber from a kit 38 or so years ago. From the first shots out of it I would get hammer blow back with maxi balls or round balls with 60 grains of black powder. I sent the gun back to TC and they claimed they tested it and it was fine with no problems. To this day, it still has blow back and I have tried different nipples. I have finally decided to just shoot reduced powder loads with round balls and ff piwder
to control the problem. I don’t like recoil and accuracy is ok and the deer still drop. Greg

 

[sqqy14]

The Seneca takes a 12-28 nipple

 

[Bigpete]

The Seneca takes a 12-28 nipple

This information has already been discovered and rectified over 2 weeks ago.

On the plus side I've procured 50 .36 maxi balls which I've lubed up using my usual beeswax/olive oil mix,my proper cleaning jag has arrived, and I've made a bunch of leather over powder wads to try out. Plus I've taken the wobble out of the barrel using lead sheet around the breech hook. Here's hoping I can start getting decent accuracy

 

[Bassdog1]

Good luck Pete I know you will get that gun shootin.

 

[Bigpete]

Well I'm happy as a pig in the proverbial,turns out this gun likes conicals !

 

[Golden Child]

Very recently I was having very inconsistent grouping with my 50 cal. The guys on this forum recommended a bunch of stuff, and it really helped me out. One I haven't seen mentioned yet is polishing the bore. My groups tightened by 4 inches at 50 yards after running an oil soaked patch wrapped in steel wool through the barrel (I think they called it the lee shaver method?) I started at 0 and worked up to 0000 steel wool. Probably 100 complete passes or more each (all the way down, all the way out). If your barrel is consistent all the way down, maybe forget the 0,00 and go right to the finer ones?
Give it a whirl. Worked for me. Sorry if someone already mentioned this, admittedly I skimmed most of the posts looking for what I thought made the most difference for me. Also, buy a powder measure and actually measure each load instead of using the spout or dipper. You might find 27 or 29 gr to be your sweet load, and a dipper or spout doesn't offer that versatility. Once you find your sweet spot, you can customize your spout or dipper to measure the correct amount for speed or ease of loading in the field. Good luck!

 

[Nor'Easter]

Well I'm happy as a pig in the proverbial,turns out this gun likes conicals !

Well I am very happy for you. That is a very nice looking rifle, too nice to be forced to look at it and see a pig-in-a poke. As a wise old man said "only accurate rifles are interesting"!

 

[Bigpete]

Well I am very happy for you. That is a very nice looking rifle, too nice to be forced to look at it and see a pig-in-a poke. As a wise old man said "only accurate rifles are interesting"!

That would be Colonel Townsend Whelen I believe.

Yes it is definitely too good to not have shoot well. Thinking about taking it out after feral goats next week now that its seemingly going to shoot well.

 

[flashpoint]

I shoot a .45 Seneca and use 70 grains of 2F and it's right on. Good luck.

That's exactly what I shoot.

 

[Bigpete]

That's exactly what I shoot.

You realise that you're replying to your own comment ?

 

[flashpoint]

You realise that you're replying to your own comment ?

Ohoooooooooooooo, Did I get that old so quick? When I read it I thought "Now there is a guy I can identify with"

 

[Bigpete]

Well,it seems she works now !