Smoothbores shooting round ball really high

[Grenadier1758]

We can see this crossing of the line of sight with a side by side which has offset barrels to the sights to be regulated for the crossing of the line of projectile flight with the line of sight.

If you keep the cheek weld the same (no change to the rear sight) and raise the barrel to see more of the front sight and perhaps some of the barrel, you are effectively raising the front sight when holding the top of the front sight on the target. The shooter is effectively raising the rear sight then when positioning the top of the front sight on the target, the muzzle of the barrel is lowered. That should lower the point of impact toward the point of aim. The same effect that @rich pierce is getting by using his front sight attachment. It will be interesting to see the results of his next visit to the shooting range.

 

[Brokennock]

Sorry, your lines are curved

Try this, in order for the bullet to do what you say the bullet would have to start off to one side of the sight alignment and progress to the other side which would mean that the sights would have to be misaligned on the barrel.

Again, the bullet and the sights are both straight lines.

Here are three examples 1. aligned 2. barrel needs bent 3. sights out of alignment with the bullet path.

View attachment 244321

Hmm, looks like a miss at the distances beyond sight in distance,,,,,, just like I've been saying. I used a ruler for the last one smart guy.


Welcome to the lead box club.

 

[Flintandsteel]

Barrel bending is NOT an uncommon practice.
Don Getz said, sometimes you gotta bend em straight.

 

[rich pierce]

Great discussion! Now off to the range. I’m betting I’ll be shooting low with my new gizzie on there.

I am reluctant to try different cheek welds and messing with the way I hold a gun. Seems like a lot to remember and reproduce.

For all the barrel bending advice, thanks but I am happy with how the gun shoots to point of aim at 60 yards which is my max deer range. If I bend the barrel to hit st point of aim at 25 yards this will make it shoot low at 60 yards and I would have to compensate for that. If I install a taller sight I could make it shoot to point of aim at 25 yards for example and be low at 60 yards, and I would have to adjust for that. I think that is indisputable. Fact is that big round balls with low velocity drop a lot, and I do not have and won’t install a rear sight which obviously would make it shoot even higher. I have bent barrels and am not scared. It’s not going to accomplish my purpose: same cheek weld and sight picture - essential with a smoothbore with no rear sight - and shoot dead on at 25 and 60 yards.

I’m trying a trick to keep the gun on aim at 60 yards which it is going with current sight, cheek weld, and no bending. In other words no change but a front sight height extension for close range primitive shoot situations. Will it work? Maybe. Is it goofy? Yes.

There’s a lot of repeating myself above. Let’s go shooting!

 

[IanH]

The idea that a ball from a smoothbore is going to "hook" or have a curvature in its path after leaving the muzzle is total balderdash.

The ball will follow a straight line as there are no forces acting on the ball after leaving the barrel (disregarding wind). And there is no spin of the ball from a smoothbore.

It isn't an "idea", it is a fact. I don't claim to have an exact explanation but it happens in golf as well as smoothbore muzzleloaders with bent barrels.

 

[French Colonial]

Here ya go,
View attachment 244304
Middle example dramatized.
If you bend a barrel to point right,,,,,, the ball will keep going in that direction. You are saying two different things. You keep saying it travels straight and I agree, it keeps going straight,,,,,, in the direction the now bent barrel is pointed in at the muzzle! If it is bent so that the muzzle is pointed to the right of the breech to hit poi at 25 yards, or 50, or wherever,,,, nothing is going to bring it back to the left to hit poi at the next distance out.

Go back to your drawing and draw a line to connect all of your X's and see how far off your sights must be in order for your theory to work.

And let me say again, I have already did this in the real world and bending barrels works and it is hard to argue with success.

It sounds like Rich has a plan that does not involve bending and more power to him, I just hate to see information posted that you can demonstrate that is incorrect.

 

[French Colonial]

It isn't an "idea", it is a fact. I don't claim to have an exact explanation but it happens in golf as well as smoothbore muzzleloaders.

Another wrong theory, golf balls have spin which causes them to curve in flight, a PRB out of a smoothbore has no spin.

 

[IanH]

Another wrong theory, golf balls have spin which causes them to curve in flight, a PRB out of a smoothbore has no spin.

And you know this HOW?

 

[French Colonial]

And you know this HOW?

You do not know that golf balls have spin?

Or you think PRB's out of a smoothbore do have spin?

 

[IanH]

You do not know that golf balls have spin?

Or you think PRB's out of a smoothbore do have spin?

This is what I wrote:

If it were mine I'd first drop a centered light and read the rings to make sure it's dead straight, and if it is, cob a taller front sight on there like the original idea. The problem with smoothbores and bending barrels is that if you want to shoot bare balls, they hook off in the direction of the bend. You might get it "on" at 25 yards and then find it is 6" left at 50 and six FEET left at 100. I don't know if the ball gets a backspin on it or what but it can "slice three fairways over" sometimes. Even a patched ball exhibits the same behavior, just not as severe. An "up" hook makes the ball drop prematurely. I don't know what the extended trajectory of a ball fired from a drooping barrel is, haven't had one of those yet.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Benched

Where does it shoot off hand?

 

[French Colonial]

This is what I wrote:

As discussed, there is no "hook" in the trajectory when a PRB leaves a smoothbore barrel. Once it leaves the barrel it travels in a straight line.

In order for it to have any curvature in its flight path it would have to have some spin and there is nothing inducing spin into the ball in its path down the barrel.

Any rotational spin either up and down or horizontally would also strip the patch from the ball and you would have a very inaccurate smoothbore.

As the drawings above illustrate if you are left at a close distance, on in the middle and right at a greater distance it is because your sights are off to one side, the exact same as a rifle would be.

 

[IanH]

As discussed, there is no "hook" in the trajectory when a PRB leaves a smoothbore barrel. Once it leaves the barrel it travels in a straight line.

It wasn't discussed, it was declared so by you with no proof.

As I wrote, the effect is much less with PRB than with BARE balls, but I have observed it to still be there.

Bare balls hook like mad from a bent barrel, facts, like them or not.

 

[smo]

My 16 gauge always shot low & left .. 7 o’clock position, 1 “ outside of the rings on a 6” target at 25 yards…

The shot low & left was shot aiming at the center of the bullseye..
The other 4 were shot using KY windage, aiming high , right ..at the 1 o’clock position & just outside of the rings..

These were shot benched at 25 yards.. . Roundball.642 no patch..


A Friend of mine straightened my barrel between a tree fork, it took removing it twice but I’m happy with the results..

That’s 5 shots, standing hold a small sapling as a brace at 25 yards after the straightening..
This load was 70 grns ffg & a .626 prb ..

My gun has a 44” Colerain barrel built by Mr. Tip Curtis.

I still haven’t tested the gun at 50 yards, but have hit turkey head sized targets at 40 fairly easy..

I think a combination of “straightening “ my barrel & seeing more barrel helped me more than anything..

I now see the base of front sight sitting atop the hump of the tang.. The front bead points where the ball will go.

Of course shooting a woods walk sunlight, shadows and old eyes come into play as well…


Good Luck !

 

[mikesto44]

Rich everyone has to realize that point of deer has a 11 inch kill zone. This is drawn from center of the deeds chest. So what I'm trying to say is either high or low you have dead deer. Four inches low at 25 yards aim a tad high from center line of chest. At 60 aim dead on at center. Hold at top of back at a hundred.
Good old Kentucky windege.
How others handle this I don't care. But this works for me. Every deer I've shot has never complained either...lol

 

[French Colonial]

My 16 gauge always shot low & left .. 7 o’clock position, 1 “ outside of the rings on a 6” target at 25 yards…

View attachment 244381

My personal belief is that when we are bending a smoothbore barrel to shoot to the sights what we are really doing is bending back to straight, as recommended by Don Getz and others and practiced by Pedersoli and other major manufacturers.

And a humorous thought, if the bullets actually hooked would we be able to shoot around corners to get that deer behind the tree

The shot low & left was shot aiming at the center of the bullseye..
The other 4 were shot using KY windage, aiming high , right ..at the 1 o’clock position & just outside of the rings..

These were shot benched at 25 yards.. . Roundball.642 no patch..


A Friend of mine straightened my barrel between a tree fork, it took removing it twice but I’m happy with the results..

View attachment 244391

That’s 5 shots, standing hold a small sapling as a brace at 25 yards after the straightening..
This load was 70 grns ffg & a .626 prb ..

My gun has a 44” Colerain barrel built by Mr. Tip Curtis.

I still haven’t tested the gun at 50 yards, but have hit turkey head sized targets at 40 fairly easy..

I think a combination of “straightening “ my barrel & seeing more barrel helped me more than anything..

I now see the base of front sight sitting atop the hump of the tang.. The front bead points where the ball will go.

View attachment 244408

Of course shooting a woods walk sunlight, shadows and old eyes come into play as well…


Good Luck !

 

[R Ellis]

The op has stated his not going to bent his barrel so can we stop with all the barrel bending and move onto something else also it is a good idea to bend and barrel that is already bent so it can be bent straight and all this hooking and other stuff can be eliminated otherwise maybe best not to bend

 

[IanH]

Agreed, like I wrote previously I'd make sure it's straight first and if not straighten it. I'd also do just what Rich is doing because based on how it already shoots I'd say HIS barrel is pretty much straight.

 

[smo]

He did mention he was shooting Lollipops at 20 yards … It’s hard too Ky windage something that small at that distance with only a front sight..
Especially if they deduct points for hitting the target frame…
Lifesaver’s, match sticks & golf tees all present a challenge..

 

[Bushfire]

Have to admit I have not read all the posts. But this seems like a nice simple “6 o’clock” hold situation for the Woods Walks. What am I missing?

+1