Shooting Indian Imports

[chuckpa]

I had a great day on the range today shooting my MTV Cookson. I used 70 grn of FFG Goex,an over the powder wad,a cushion wad,.019 ticking patch and a .662 round ball. I used a ice pick and punched a hole in each of the wads. I shot a tight group a little low and still have to file the sight down a little. I would like to hear range reports from others out there shooting the Indian Imports.

 

[Jumpshot]

Why the hole in the wads?

 

[chuckpa]

It relieves the air pressure as you ram the wads. The folks at Dixons muzzle loading shop recommended that procedure.

 

[bingo1952]

That sounds like a decent idea. Do you do it to your over powder wad also or just the cushion and over shot wad? I haven't noticed a problem with the over powder wad but the cushion and over shot sometimes effect a pretty good seal and push themselves partially back up the bore. I have been "pumping" them down.

 

[chuckpa]

When I load shot I only do it to the over the powder wad and cushion wad. I never had a problem with the over the shot wad.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you are going to use wads, the OP Wad should be used as is. It will push air out in front of it, through the powder, out the vent, or up through the nipple, and the hissing sound will tell you that the channel to the main charge is clear. The cusion wad can be " holed", but if you use just 1/3 or 1/2" the standard cushion wad, dampened with liquid lube/cleaner/solvent, you should not need the hole in the cusion wad to relieve air.

The OS cards are the ones that need the holes, as they do " bounce " on you, and then let air turn an edge to escape, and that is not good for patterns. Use 2 OS cards, as recommended by Jim Rackham, last Summer and Fall in his postings. Just line the two cards up so that the holes are NOT lined up together. They will let air escape through the wads out the barrel as you load them down the bore, and they will cause the cards to separate and fall to the ground after leaving the muzzle when the gun is fired.

Jim only uses OS cards to load his Fowler. 4 Os Cards instead of an OP wad, and cushion wad. Each is pierced, and he lines the cards so the holes are at 3,6,9 and 12 o'clock. He puts a ball or dab of lube between the 3rd and 4th cards before running them down the barrel. Then he puts in his load of shot, followed with two OS cards on top of the shot. The holes in those two cards are set at 12 and 6 o'clock. The holes allow the cards to quickly brake, separate, and fall out of the line of travel of the load of shot, so the wads do not bump the shot in the air, causing donut hole patterns. His patterns show a very even distribution of shot, using this technique.

 

[tg]

You can also nick the edge a bit with a finger nail or knife to let the air by.

 

[paulvallandigham]

TG: Yes, you can nick an edge to let air go by, but its bad for patterns. That is why it makes more sense to use an awl, or sharp nail, to poke a hole in the thin OS card. I can sit watching TV and punch holes in hundreds in an evening, using my awl. Just put a bowl on the coffee table to throw them into when you finish the hole, and grab some more from the box, or bag.

The only way you can get by with nicking an edgewithout damaging your patterns, is if you have a specially fitted jag for your loading rod that is just under bore size, so that the edge of the jag will put the nicked edge down again against the bore. Using two OS cards on top of the shot with the nicked edges opposite each other, can also work, with that special fitted jag. There is little point to doing something to relieve air pressure if it ruins your patterns, or makes the performance of your loads inconsistent.

The Beauty of Jim's suggestion is that he has not only patterned the loads, and found they are very good, but he has now taken the gun and loading technique out into the woods to hunt grouse, and has been successful. His pictures showing his successful shots on grouse speak volumes for his technique of loading.

I may end up only using the OP wads I now have for shooting PRB in my fowler. As for the cusion wads, I may end up selling them or giving them away. I am not sure what other use they will have for me.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I nick edges on occasion. I have found no change in my patterns.
Mostly I just push the OS card down like a man and it doesn't dare argue with me. :haha:
I also run my OP and cushion wad down together to avoid any problems of this sort.

 

[chuckpa]

Thank you for that information Paul. I will try loading that way when I start working on shot loads for this fowler, later this summer to get ready for fall hunting.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Yep. When I was using both OP wads, and cushion wads, I found that loading them together also saved me that trouble. I soak my cushion wads in moose milk, and squeeze them out before putting them down the barrel. That makes them soft enough that I have never had any " dieseling " effect from loading them. The dieseling has happened with the OS cards, before I began poking a hole in them with the awl. I use a standard jag when loading the cards, and the maker bevels the front edge of the jag. I need to chuck that jag in a drill and file off the face of it, to get rid of the bevel, to get a good edge seat to the cards.

 

[J.D.]

Whew, you are shooting guns imported from India. What a relief.

From reading the title of the thread, I was a little concerned that the thread was about shooting imported Indians. :rotf:

 

[bingo1952]

If we shot the imported Indians who would run the 7 Elevens? :rotf:

 

[squirejohn]

Chuckpa - In my MVT Cookson I use 75g of 2F, .015 patch, and .665 ball (bore .685). I bent the barrel and slid the sight over some because it shot low right when I received it. It shoots OK now. The long barrel and large front sight is helpful for my old eyes,and also, being heavier than a "proverbial dead minister" makes for a steady hold.

 

[chuckpa]

I have old eyes also and that big sight and long barrel is a great help. Right now I use 275 power reading glasses so I use about 125 power reading glasses when I shoot, that brings in the sight for me even with the long barrel.

 

[Leonredbeard]

Chuck,
You live at Hamburg, PA?! Wow! That's like Mecca isn't it? Cabelas is right there. It's just a short jaunt over to Dixon's. Does it get any better than that?

Oh, yeah, I used to entertain newbys by ramming the overshot card as far as I could, then let go of the ramrod and grab it again just before it got out of the range of my reach. Hee Hee! It really impresses them.
volatpluvia

 

[chuckpa]

Yes it does get better, I live only 15 minutes from the Blue Mountain Muzzle Loading Rifle Assn. Range which is one of the oldest muzzle loading ranges in the country. I get to tap into a lot of tears of experience and knowledge. Hope to see you at the Gun Makers Fair again this July.

I believe that one of the reasons for the holes in the wads is also so that no air space is left between any of the components and I was shooting a PR.

 

[chuckpa]

LOL make that Years of experience.

 

[Muskeg Stomper]

Glad to see someone else who knows a good deal when they see it with most Indian-made guns. I had a 3rd model Brown Bess that I used to use as a both a fowler and with round ball but just sold it so I could buy another gun. I went with a MVTC Early Trade Musket and just took it to the range today for the first time. I only worked up loads for round ball so far. I like the looks of both the model I got and the Cookson Fowler but decided that the fowler maybe had a little longer barrel than I wanted to deal with. I went with the early trade musket since it can also be used to cover a wide time period for historical events. Enjoyed the doglock immensely today but learned it could bust me just under the checkbone with stouter loads. Be interested to hear what other use for loads with their fowlers.

 

[Leonredbeard]

Hey, Yeah, Chuck,
I camped there three or four Memorial Weekends. I won a claybird shoot once, came in second anther time. Had a lot of fun. It is a nice place. Is Henry still running the clay bird shoot?
I plan to be a Dixon's, Lord willing.
volatpluvia