Powder Charge Size - Charles Moore Pistol

[JasonUK]

I have just become the very proud owner of a Pedersoli Charles Moore Target Pistol in .45 Percussion. Today I had enormous fun trying it at the ranges for the first time. It does appear to be firing high considerably at 25 yards (though this could largely be due to 'new pistol shakes' on my part! ) Shots were landing about 6 inches high above point of aim.

I was using 20 grain charges of Swiss No.2 powder. I wondered if reducing the size of the charge would make a difference in reducing the height of the point of impact? I believe that the Charles Moore pistol has a powder chamber which has to be completely full to avoid a gap between powder and ball. I fear that reducing the charge may not fill this gap.

I wondered if I may ask for the thoughts and advice of your goodselves as to the minimum amount of powder I can safely load?

 

[amccall]

One thing that I find helps consistantcy is use a wool felt wad over the powder charge. I would then try 15 to 17 grns. of powder and see where you hit then. Another thing is can you go to a larger ball maybe a 0.451 or 0.454 size ball? I use these in my 45 cal. and they have helped. :v

 

[mec]

use a wool felt wad over the powder

That is what pedersoli recommends regardless of powder charge in the video tape they send with their guns. first the charge, then the wad and then the patched ball.

I don't know if the Charles Moore has a long section of unrifled chamber or not but I believe most of the people who shoot in organized matches use less powder. I'm not sure what swiss numbe r2 is but here we go by F sizes with the most commone being ffg and fffg. Swiss is energetic powder and is likely to equal or exceed pyrodex and get higher velocities than goex and other brands.

 

[JasonUK]

Thanks for your advice He-Bear and Mec. I will give the larger ball size a try, reduce the charge a touch and also use over-powder wads.

I bought .440 size balls and also got some Ox-Yoke Originals oiled patches (no size stated on packet but Store Owner recommended these to use with .440 ball).

I didn't get a Pedersoli video with my new pistol so I didn't get to see the advice about the over- powder wad. I use these in my Parker Hale Whitworth Rifle but I didn't know if it would be overdoing things to use these with the oiled patch in the Charles Moore.

I am very grateful for your advice with this and will try these out. The pistol groups so far have been really nice - it would just be nice to land these in the middle of the target without aiming too low. :grin:

 

[Zonie]

Dixie Gunworks catalog recommends using a .440 dia ball with a .015 thick patch.
They also give 25 grains of FFFg powder as the powder load.

Just a quick calculation estimating 10 inches between the front and rear sight says about .067 inches would have to be removed from the front sight to raise the point of impact 6 inches at 25 yards.
The picture of the pistol in the Dixie catalog doesn't look like there is much more than that for the existing sight so perhaps you will have to use the Target shooters method of aiming at the bottom of the bulls eye?
zonie

 

[montanadan]

Jason UK-My Charles Moore45 cal.I use a .445 rb,and .012 patch actual.I use 15 grns of swiss @ 25 yds.For 50 yds up the load to 20grns.Like MEC suggested,load powder then the wad.I did try .440 rb,and .015 patch(actual) never grouped as well as the .445.These pistols really shoot well,hope this helps...Respectfully Montanadan

 

[JasonUK]

Montanadan, i am very grateful for your and Zonie's suggestions too. I knew you guys on the forum would be really helpful. I am really interested in the loads you used too, 15grains for 25 and 20 for 50yards. I now know I can safely go down to 15grains. I am also really pleased to hear your good comments about the pistol, it makes me feel even better about buying it. I hadn't really thought about trying it at 50 yards - that does sound fun.

Am I right in thinking that there is a powder 'chamber' of less than bore size in the breech of the pistol? I know this to be so with the Le Page pistols.

I am loathe to take any metal off the tip of the sight at this stage. As Zonie says there isnt a lot of metal really and I would hate to find after removing some that it was largely my being not used to the gun that caused me to fire higher that extra few inches and it was then too late! :shake:

I am looking forward to experimenting with loads (any excuse to take it down the ranges!) :thumbsup: Many thanks again for your help.

Kind Regards
Jason

 

[mec]

to make the pistol shoot lower, you would need to add to the front sight rather than file it down. You would do the opposit with the rear sight. You might be able to take it down a bit without messing up the sight picture. I regularly use 15 grains/equivalent of h777 in a LePage with a patched .433 ball. I have never felt the ball go past the rifling (as I have with small charges in a Lyman gp rifle.)
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these pistols are not sensitive to load volume, ball diameter or patch thickness. The Lyman shoots equally well with 250 grain Lee REAL bullets. A 490 or .495" ball hits the same point of aim at 25 yards over 20/ gr/vol H777 as it does with 40 grains goex fffg or pyrodex.

 

[Zonie]

MEC: You are absolutly right about raising the front sight. I had a brain flatulence. :redface:

 

[TFoley]

Am I right in thinking that there is a powder 'chamber' of less than bore size in the breech of the pistol? Jason

Dear Mr Jason - I too used to shoot my Charles Moore pistol with nothing more than 15gr of Swiss, but I patched the ball using fine pillow ticking. It used to be as accurate as any of my other .44 centrefire revolvers, and a lot beter than some of them.

The reduced volume chamber you note is called a high-pressure breech, and your P-H Whitworth [serial number please, for David Minshall on this forum] also has one.

Please talk to me on [email protected] about shooting your Whitworth - mine is 20 years old now, BTW....

Best wishes from ORPC [look it up on the internet, and you'll see me shooting the M-H as well as a lot of other BP weapons...]

tac

 

[montanadan]

Jason- right now I am playing around with .436 rb,and a .007 patch(actual).the lands on these pistols are not very deep,so I have been playing larger diameter rb's and smaller patch,shows some promise.I use RWS caps,with the Swiss powder,it shoots very clean.I have also tried 17 grns of 2f Swiss(@25 yds) very good groups.However you will have convert our powder to the eoropean granulation,and I have forgotton what that is.Charles Moore have longer barrel than the Le Page,different grip,makes a little barrel heavy but I like it maybe a little better.Ihope this helps you...Respectfully Montanadan

 

[JasonUK]

Thanks for the advice Mec. I have to say that I love the photos of your excellent targets with your pistols. I will be very happy when I can achieve scores like that. Its the kind of inspiration I need to keep up the experimentation and practice.

Jason

 

[JasonUK]

Dear Tac, Thank you very much for the information. I think I will reduce my powder loading from 20 to 15 grains as a starting point and observe the differences, add an overpowder wool felt wad and perhaps increasing ball size to see if that makes a further difference. I will have to try the pillow ticking too. It is really good to learn of so many things to try out.

I know that I should spend some more time getting used to the pistol before making too many changes. I suspect that after a couple of hundred shots or so my technique may have improved which should bring the shots lower. My experience is mainly in rifle shooting and pistol shooting is something that I have always needed to really work on.

I will get in touch about the Whitworth shooting as you suggested. Thank you also for telling me about the ORPC. The Martini-Henry photo in particular is terrific.

With kind regards

Jason

 

[norfolk shooter]

hello there fellow brit. now i have the pistol as you and i had the same problem at 25m. what i did was build up the fore sight with a bit of araldite and droped the powder to 10grns. i use a .445 ball with a 15thou patch. i have just won the summer BP pistol comp in my club but at the moment im not shooting very well. but pls do try a 10grn load see what happens.