Patent breech...why?

[Carl Fowler III]

Why do the current ML manufacture's use this patent breech...only thing I can think of is to make the breech end stronger for liability reasons. It certainly makes cleaning more difficult and has to delay the firing of the powder load upon ignition! :cursing:

 

[necchi]

Not sure why they use it.
But I have no trouble cleaning a patent breech, nor do I have touble with ignition.

Soap and water and the pump method does the job of keeping a paten breech clean.

 

[M. De Land]

I was always under the impression that a patent breech was for the express reason of cleaning ease by barrel removal. Maybe I have it all wrong! MD

 

[jdkerstetter]

"Hooked" breeches facilitate easy removal of the barrel and may or may not be patent breeches.

A patent breech refers to a breech with contains a powder chamber and the ignition channel....either vent or nipple.

Hope that helps. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[M. De Land]

Thanks JD, I was confusing the two. Are powder chambers considered patent breech's or only breech plugs with angled nipple vents?
I have a friend with an underhammer bench gun that also has a reduced powder chamber,would that be considered a patent breech as the nipple is in the barrel not the breech. MD

 

[jdkerstetter]

No problem Mike.

Carl, I believe this is simply a cost savings move by the producers of these guns.

Look at the T/C sidelocks or the Perdersoli Frontier Rifles. They simply change that feature and the lock and they can run flinters or percussions off the end of the line.

Simlar to threading in a drum where a vent liner would go, but indexing is easier and the patent breech is safer.....so lower liability.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Col. Batguano]

I think the patent breech is easier for manufacturers to replicate too. One less hole to drill.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Not sure why they use it.
But I have no trouble cleaning a patent breech, nor do I have touble with ignition.

Soap and water and the pump method does the job of keeping a paten breech clean.

Ditto.

 

[Semisane]

Double ditto.

 

[George T.]

They do not give me grief either. I think he was talking about the area that is smaller than bore diameter. I have read here that bore brushes wrapped with a patch and bore swabs are used for this area. I do pump water back and forth and it seems to clean it just fine as long as I oil the smaller area. Geo. T.

 

[pa woods roamer]

Why I like them is when, not that I have done this,a Shooter forgets the Powder before the Patch rule, The Ball is setting on top of the Patent Breech. This leaves the empty Powder Chamber to dribble in some 4F to shoot out the chargeless Patch and Ball combo!!

 

[Little Wattsy]

Why I like them is when, not that I have done this,a Shooter forgets the Powder before the Patch rule, The Ball is setting on top of the Patent Breech. This leaves the empty Powder Chamber to dribble in some 4F to shoot out the chargeless Patch and Ball combo!!

Never thought about it before but that is at least one good reason for the P.B.!!

 

[pargent]

Modern manufactureing,, it's as simple as that , ease of using the same parts across a wide product range .

 

[George T.]

Yeah but you know none of us ever do that. :grin: Geo. T.

 

[Carl Fowler III]

Why I like them is when, not that I have done this,a Shooter forgets the Powder before the Patch rule, The Ball is setting on top of the Patent Breech. This leaves the empty Powder Chamber to dribble in some 4F to shoot out the chargeless Patch and Ball combo!!

My hats off to you Lead Slinger, that at least is a reasonable excuse for having the smaller breech...still have to wonder if this is what the engineers had in mind! :idunno:

 

[Zonie]

The original Patent breech was designed and Patented by Nock, the noted London gunsmith in the era of the Flintlock.
It looked like this:

The purpose of this design was to create an anti-chamber which would self load with powder during loading.
The ignition of the small powder charge created a jet of flame thru the small connecting hole into the main powder charge and was supposed to provide increased velocity and less fouling.

Some testing that I've read about seemed to prove the theory was correct.

Because of Nock's Patent his competition couldn't use it in their guns so Manton used the "chambered breech" that so many of us wrongly call a patent breech.
It too is supposed to create a jet of flame to improve the ignition of the main powder charge.
Below is a sketch of this

In the late 1970's or early 1980's Ardesa in Spain created their own design of a breech that would provide improved ignition.
They did Patent this design so when people are speaking of the CVA's breech and calling it a Patent breech they are correct. They are refering to a different Patent though as it is different than Nocks original design.

Here's a drawing showing the typical flintlock breeches found in most muzzleloading rifles.
The percussion breeches are similar but use a flame channel to connect the breech with the nipple.

 

[54ball]

Henry Nock was granted a patent for his Nock Breach in 1757.

Zonie beat me too it. and with photos.

One thing that the Nock breach was susposed to achieve was faster ignition and higher velocity. The shape of the chamber makes the powder at the breach, a shaped charge. Some builders, especially in pistols will dish a conventional plug to shape the charge.

So one form of Patent Breach was patented in 1757 well before percussion.

 

[54ball]

There are two meanings for the word "patent".
Patt-ent - Would be a legal term for a design to prevent copy with out compensation.
Nock filed a patent on his breach design.

patent
Pay-tent- means open and or clear.
After intubation with a breathing tube, the patient's airway was patent. or... Nock's breach design had a patent channel designed inside for faster ignition, compared to a standard breach that is solid.

Both uses would be correct for either context.
I have always pronounced it Pay-tent breach.

 

[ResearchPress]

Henry Nock was granted a patent for his Nock Breach in 1757.

Nock's breech was Patented in 1787.

25 April 1787 - No.1598
Nock, Henry.- Breeching applicable to all kinds of guns and "other fire-arms," &c. The touchhole is made in the breech, in the front of which is a cup-shaped chamber open to the barrel, and communicating with the touchhole. The breech, commonly call the patent breech, is screwed on its outside to fit the inside of the barrel. One or two moveable screws are fitted into the breech, which may be removed to give access to the chamber.
[Source: Abridgements of the Patent Specifications relating to Fire-arms and other Weapons, Ammunitions & Accoutrements 1588-1858]

David

 

[roundball]

It certainly makes cleaning more difficult and has to delay the firing of the powder load upon ignition! :cursing:

Just the opposite...they speed up ignition and are much easier to clean.
The design used in what we refer to today as a Patent Breech is actually self cleaning, with the back-blast pressure blowing down & out through the vent channel & vent each time.
The "L" shaped channel / power chamber intersection has nothing below it to catch/trap fouling like a straight breech can...which can gradually build up and begin to block the vent channel.

After using them for 10+ years on various T/C and GM barrels, I prefer them so much that I had a Custom Breeching Shop make Patent Breech plugs for the barrels on all my long guns. And it turns out that they even make cleaning pinned barrel long guns a breeze just using a ramrod and patches.
One rod stays set up with a .32cal brush on it, wrap a patch around the brush and it slides all the way down to clean/dry/lube the small vertical powder chamber in the breech.
Personally, I won't own a barrel without one of today's Patent Breeches...others mileage may vary.