N.C. Nessler ball testing

[Stantheman86]

They shoot the same with or without paper. I think .685 vs .680 wouldn't even matter, the bullet bumps up.

I see no reason why there couldn't be a Nessler ball Skirmish event.

 

[dave951]

They shoot the same with or without paper. I think .685 vs .680 wouldn't even matter, the bullet bumps up.

I see no reason why there couldn't be a Nessler ball Skirmish event.

Supposedly the ball also obturates or "bumps up". I use a 685 ball in my 69cal Macon with extremely good results. I'd like to try the Nessler and for the experiment to be relevant, it's going to have to be 685. My theory regarding "bumping up"- if a rifled musket has best accuracy with the minie being just .001-2 under bore size, and my smoothbore at .005, the Nessler should be in that range as well.

 

[gemmer]

I think the "bump up" would be more profound in a rifled musket than in a smoothbore due to the increased pressure created by the projectile grabbing the rifling. This discussion got me thinking and just for giggles, today I'm going to try a few .686 Rapine wadcutter minies in my original flint 1816. It has a Hoyt relined barrel with a .687 bore. The minie is quite short and noted N-SSA author Jim Bilby noted that it might be worth a try since it's pretty close to the original Nessler concept. It is VERY accurate out of my rifled 1842. If the "Nessler" can be obtained in .685, I'd try it in the '42.

 

[Stantheman86]

You would have to enlarge the mold , at least at the skirt area to make them .685 or , I know almost nothing about casting but get the lead hotter and let it expand with a quick release from the mold?

 

[Stantheman86]

In my video I basically drop a bare .680 NC Nessler down my clean, unfouled bore, give it a few moderate "thumps " and point the bore downward . The bullet did not move forward. After the "fouling " shot they load like Minies. Still not very accurate .

You'd do better using "bare" .678 Foster slugs with a finger smear of lube on them.

The .680 bullet expands probably to over .685 just from normal loading. I sometimes forget how soft lead is.....I dropped a Foster slug like 3 feet onto my floor and the whole base was oval shaped just from hitting my vinyl fake tile.

 

[DaveC]

All good to know! Thanks!

I'm going to try to make a thinner Enfield-type cartridge with the bullet reversed, facing the powder chamber. I made some simplified reversed-bullet cartridges, and the paper with lubricant on the bullet was too thick, so I couldn't get it started in the muzzle to tear off/ snap off the empty powder cylinder.

I've got some better paper, I hope! I'll make up a bunch of those types with the reversed NC "Nesler" ball and dip them in tallow or 3 parts tallow to 1 part beeswax...
Then, I'm also going to make some "central pillar" type cartridges with the NC "Nesler." For those, I'll roll the paper around the forming rod/ mandrel with the Nesler bullet on the flat side such that the rolled paper covers the ostensibly "collapsing skirt" if such it really is, and tie that area with a linen string. That way the paper part will trail behind the exposed lead slug. It'll kind of/ sort of look a bit like the Gardiner type cartridges used early in the war until it was found that they were flimsy and the bullet would separate from the paper sleeve containing the charge. I'll dip the bullet into tallow or a mostly tallow lube.

Lastly, I'll try shooting some like Minie/Burton balls in both my smooth bore and my rifled Model 1842. So, three variables in cartridge construction, and however many variations in powder charges I'll do, say 70-80 grains 2f or 60 grains 3f?

As for N-SSA, only lead round balls can be used in smoothbore skirmish events.

 

[Stantheman86]

I'd be really interested in seeing your complete cartridges, all the different types.

I'm anxious to try the cigarette papers for mine , I can't shoot until mid December

Also curious how Minies work in a Smoothbore.

 

[gemmer]

The wadcutter minies were a waste of lead and powder. Patched balls will stay inside a 6 inch target a 50 yds.

 

[dave951]

Wadcutter minies out of my musket make one big ragged hole at 50yd.

 

[gemmer]

The wadcutter minies were a waste of lead and powder. Patched balls will stay inside a 6 inch target a 50 yds.

Wadcutter minies out of my musket make one big ragged hole at 50yd.

Is your musket a smoothbore? I tried them out of my smoothbore 1816.

 

[dave951]

Rifled, but the post didn't make a distinction. Wadcutter minies can be extremely accurate

 

[Stantheman86]

What is a Wadcutter Minie?
Something else I'll have to obsessively play with.....

Also , a rifled Armi Sport 1842 is at the top of my list now.

 

[dave951]

What is a Wadcutter Minie?
Something else I'll have to obsessively play with.....

Also , a rifled Armi Sport 1842 is at the top of my list now.

Look up Rapine Trashcan. The name fits rather well.

 

[gemmer]

The Rapine/Moose Moulds wadcutter minie I was referring to is more of a semi wadcutter. In .69 cal it weighs over 200 grains LESS than the original style, which is murder on the shoulder. It's also available for .58s. The trashcan looks like the old .38 special wadcutter but can only be had for .58s. The rifled Armi 1842 is a good quality musket, especially the earlier versions. Some say quality has fallen off in the newer Chiappa models. If you find one, make sure you check the bore size as they tend to run oversize, around .693. No worries though, if you get a Moose mould. They make one in .695 that can be sized to suit. My original rifled '42 loves the Moose minie. They keyholed out of my smoothbore 1816. By the way Dave 951, the thread is about Nesslers in smoothbores.

 

[dave951]

By the way Dave 951, the thread is about Nesslers in smoothbores.

Yes I know it is, but a question was asked about the wadcutter.

I am interested in the Nessler if I can get a mold in 685. I know I can't use it in competition. I'd like to see if it would be suitable for hunting purposes.

 

[gemmer]

Yes I know it is, but a question was asked about the wadcutter.

I am interested in the Nessler if I can get a mold in 685. I know I can't use it in competition. I'd like to see if it would be suitable for hunting purposes.

The problem I see with the Nessler in a rifled musket even if it's fat enough is will it compress like a Wilkinson and even if it does, it has no lube groove. I'd try a few with the base dipped in lube if I could buy them, but I wouldn't spring for a mould first.

 

[RAEDWALD]

Just to mention that the whole point of the Nessler, Belgian or North Carolina, was to raise the accuracy and thus effective range of a smooth bore musket. For a rifled long arm one was spoiled for choice. Nesslers, of any type, were irrelevant to a rifle.

 

[Stantheman86]

I really can't wait to get the Foster Slugs on paper out to 100 yards, the NC Nesslers must have (may have?) some way to make them shoot better.

If I had a rifled .69 I'd probably just use Minies , every used Rifled 1842 Armi Sport I see is priced $10 below a new one , so maybe after the winter breaks I'll get a new one.

I'm also going to experiment with some Wool 12 gauge wads under the various slugs , because they're made near where I went to college in Bellefonte PA so I figure I'd try them.

 

[Britsmoothy]

By the way .71" is just over 18 mm.
I noticed it earlier in the thread.

 

[Mark Spence]

Here’s a Nessler round I found Civil War hunting in a camp