Nice weather in New York so I decided to shoot my recently acquired Enfield 1842 Musket for the FIRST time just to see how it shoots. Bought my lead ball, bought my oiled patch, bought my black powder, bought my measurer, but lo and behold cannot find musket percussion caps. A lousy couple of musket caps is keeping me from firing an historic weapon. Any leads on caps. I'm not looking for 1000, just 5-10. Why no caps?
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Musket Dilema
- Thread starter StephenT
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gunmaker43
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You can change the nipple out to one made for #11's if you want, easier to come by--and cheaper...Tom
Tom, thanks. I wanted to keep everything as original as I can but I guess I don't have a choice. I can always shoot it once or twice and then put back the original nipple. How would I measure the size of the nipple I would change out? I have no idea what size the nipple end is going into the gun or the cap end size.
gunmaker43
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Someone here'll know what the threads are, might be anything, Enfield's English so likely metric. There are nipples made for the Zouave that I think are metric for #11's. All American military guns were metric up to civil war, some later even. ??? ...Tom
Moose Guide
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I would be surprised if that gun is metric, England had its own system that the U.S.A. closely(but not exactly) mimicked. If it is original, I would expect thread on some imperial measurement! If it is a replica, then it could very well be metric!
I'm not going to say this is the size for sure but, The original Enfields, the Parker-Hale Enfields and most of the other reproductions of the percussion British muskets use a 5/16-18 UNC thread for their nipple.
Many of the reproduction Springfields, Remington Zouaves and Mississippi muskets and rifled muskets use a 5/16-24 UNF thread for their nipple.
Both of these thread sizes are standard in the US so my advice is for you to remove the nipple and take it to a hardware store.
Find a 5/16-18 nut and try to screw the nipple into it. If it goes, you have your answer.
If it binds up, try it in a 5/16-24 thread nut.
Once you know the thread size and pitch you can order a replacement nipple from Track of the Wolf.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/807/1
For the Musket size caps you might try calling all of the sporting goods stores in your area.
These caps are not only used for muskets but many of the new fangled muzzleloaders we don't talk about also use them so it's possible to find them even in stores that don't carry much for the Traditional guns we enjoy.
Many of the reproduction Springfields, Remington Zouaves and Mississippi muskets and rifled muskets use a 5/16-24 UNF thread for their nipple.
Both of these thread sizes are standard in the US so my advice is for you to remove the nipple and take it to a hardware store.
Find a 5/16-18 nut and try to screw the nipple into it. If it goes, you have your answer.
If it binds up, try it in a 5/16-24 thread nut.
Once you know the thread size and pitch you can order a replacement nipple from Track of the Wolf.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/807/1
For the Musket size caps you might try calling all of the sporting goods stores in your area.
These caps are not only used for muskets but many of the new fangled muzzleloaders we don't talk about also use them so it's possible to find them even in stores that don't carry much for the Traditional guns we enjoy.
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Folk who have to rely on buying every thing over a counter are always going to struggle with old guns!
The best way to do that for the nipple is to replace the original with a current one for actual use. Nipples are, and were back then, expendable. Save the original to put back in when the time comes for permanent retirement of the musket.
To replace, you can send to TOW and they will send it back with correct sized new mades for you to use.
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Rifleman1776 said:
GOOD ADVICE!!!!
The folks who shoot original rifles in NSSA shooting normally do this because with an original iron cone/nipple, you never know when it will crack/chip/break.
Not sure how easy it would be to find and original replacement nipple for that rifle.
Gus
Va.Manuf.06
58 Cal.
If you want to insist on "an original" nipple for the gun, see Atlanta Cutlery or IMA, they are the two companies selling guns, bayonets and parts from the Nepal cache, both may have original nipples. Here is a link to the one at Atlanta:
http://www.atlantacutlery.com/p-1646-nipple-for-enfield-rifle.aspx
I know, it says Enfield Rifle and you have a musket but the British military, the EIC and military arms made in Britain for the trade all used the same cone, this should work fine. But, as others have said, a new-made cone will be better for everyday shooting use. The 5/16-18 UNC suggested by Zonie should work, that is the size that fits original British, French, Nepalese and American made P53 Rifle Muskets.
http://www.atlantacutlery.com/p-1646-nipple-for-enfield-rifle.aspx
I know, it says Enfield Rifle and you have a musket but the British military, the EIC and military arms made in Britain for the trade all used the same cone, this should work fine. But, as others have said, a new-made cone will be better for everyday shooting use. The 5/16-18 UNC suggested by Zonie should work, that is the size that fits original British, French, Nepalese and American made P53 Rifle Muskets.
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Tumblernotch
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Tom Knight said:
Won't be metric. Imperial.
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Tom Knight said:
Tom,
Dixie Gun Works has stated that for years in their catalogues. However, I don't believe that to be true. I've checked threads in many original M1822 Muskets (usually called "M1816 Types") up through an original M1840 that had never been converted to percussion, these were made at Springfield and by various Contractors. I've also checked threads on M1842 Muskets. The number of Threads Per Inch are different in many cases than what we use today, but a Precision Thread Gage shows they are threaded various threads per inch and not metric.
MAYBE the M1795 Flintlock Musket was Metric, I don't know as I have never checked the threads on them or on other Model Muskets up to the M1822 models. We MAY have gotten Metric taps and dies from the French when we copied the St. Etienne/Charleville Model 1763/66 Musket. However, the French Revolution was going on from 1789 and King Louis XVI of France was executed on 21 January 1793. Further the Quasi War with France ca. 1798-1800 strongly chilled our friendship with France and would have stopped much trade. So MAYBE our first Model Musket and maybe some following were metric, but when we used our own locally made taps and dies for at least the M1822 Muskets, they were made in Inch Pattern.
Gus
Your second sentence is wise thinking.
For many years the Dixie catalog was the only source for information about muzzle loaders. Exception was the campfire at big events. There was a lot published by them that was very misleading, if not downright, incorrect. Dependence on the catalog pretty much vanished with the introduction of internet access in every home.
Looking at the metric system information on Wikipedia (yes I know), a couple of things caught my attention.
First, the system that first only consisted of distance and weight units was introduced in France in 1799.
It seems to me that it is very unlikely firearms made in France or the U.S. prior to 1799 would be using meters, centimeters, millimeters etc.
Next, The United States first sanctioned the use of the Metric System in 1866.
As the Metric system was not recognized in the US prior to 1866 I find it highly unlikely that any firearms made in the US, during or prior to the Civil War would be made using the Metric system.
First, the system that first only consisted of distance and weight units was introduced in France in 1799.
It seems to me that it is very unlikely firearms made in France or the U.S. prior to 1799 would be using meters, centimeters, millimeters etc.
Next, The United States first sanctioned the use of the Metric System in 1866.
As the Metric system was not recognized in the US prior to 1866 I find it highly unlikely that any firearms made in the US, during or prior to the Civil War would be made using the Metric system.
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GREAT points, Zonie.
Colonial Frontier Guns by T.M. Hamilton speaks to 18th century French Military Arms having been tested for GO and NO GO bore diameters In Ligne (.089 inch) and Points (.0075 inch) and that system mentioned in the 1789 edition, but was fully explained in the French Manual "Aide Memoire" for Officers of the Royal Artillery Corps ca. 1819.
This means even the French were using the "Pre Metric System" in the earliest era we had a National Armories to make or contract for muskets. That clearly means the U.S. did not use the Metric System on U.S. Military Firearms earlier than has been observed and documented to be Threads Per Inch screw threads.
I guess Dixie Gun Works never bothered to have gunsmiths or machinists actually check the screw threads on early U.S. Martial Arms and they were only guessing the screw threads were Metric.
Gus
Colonial Frontier Guns by T.M. Hamilton speaks to 18th century French Military Arms having been tested for GO and NO GO bore diameters In Ligne (.089 inch) and Points (.0075 inch) and that system mentioned in the 1789 edition, but was fully explained in the French Manual "Aide Memoire" for Officers of the Royal Artillery Corps ca. 1819.
This means even the French were using the "Pre Metric System" in the earliest era we had a National Armories to make or contract for muskets. That clearly means the U.S. did not use the Metric System on U.S. Military Firearms earlier than has been observed and documented to be Threads Per Inch screw threads.
I guess Dixie Gun Works never bothered to have gunsmiths or machinists actually check the screw threads on early U.S. Martial Arms and they were only guessing the screw threads were Metric.
Gus
England and the US both used the inch system with England using Whitworth threads as well as British Standard Fine, Cycle Engineer's Institute (also British Standard Cycle)and British Pipe threads (and a few other obscure threads) For all practical purposes metrification didn't begin in
England till the early 1970's. The threads found in US musket locks are standard inch threads, just not ones that are common today. Attempts to standardize the Metric thread system which was fairly new at the time began in the mid 1800's and went through quite a number of changes before reaching the level of standardization of today.
England till the early 1970's. The threads found in US musket locks are standard inch threads, just not ones that are common today. Attempts to standardize the Metric thread system which was fairly new at the time began in the mid 1800's and went through quite a number of changes before reaching the level of standardization of today.
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