Murphy's Oil Soap,

[Zonie]

Your local muzzleloader club must have a Federal License to sell black powder if they are buying it by the case and selling it directly to its members.

That is the only way they can legally do that.

There is another way they can order large amounts of powder for the members but, the individual members must first pay for the powder before the order is placed.

Then, the member who is collecting the money can serve as an agent for the group and order the powder.
When it arrives, the agent then distributes the shipment to the members who have already paid for their share.
Under no circumstances (except in cases where the club has a Federal License) can the agent or the club he's a part of, sell any of the powder to anyone who was not part of the initial order.

 

[Bent Sight]

I went to the range today to test Murphy's Oil Soap for patch lube when firing my newly acquired Thompson Center .45 caliber Hawken. I picked the rifle up from the gun shop today and drove directly to the range. The bore was clean before I started testing.

Patches treated with 1:7 Ballistol and water and patches treated with Murphy's Oil Soap shot identical groups with all shots grouped in one small ragged hole at 25 meters. Ox Yoke patch groups were more than twice the size.

I applied the Murphy's Oil Soap differently this time. I put the patch material in a large medicine bottle filled with MOS and soaked it. After I was certain the patch material was saturated, I wrung it out and lay it on a piece of window screen to dry overnight. The following day, the material was cut into patches and stored in a dry medicine bottle. The patches were in the bottle for several days before I used them and they felt slightly damp.

The compressed thickness of all patches was 0.015". I was unable to use the ball starter. I had to start the ball and patch with a small block of wood and a hammer, then a wood dowel rod to drive the ball a few inches below the muzzle.

The primary goal for today was to zero the rifle with a known good load for my CVA Kentucky rifle. The TC Hawken groups were definitely smaller. I'll stretch the testing distance out to 50 meters on the next outing.

 

[Don Steele]

Your local muzzleloader club must have a Federal License to sell black powder if they are buying it by the case and selling it directly to its members.

That is the only way they can legally do that.

There is another way they can order large amounts of powder for the members but, the individual members must first pay for the powder before the order is placed.

Then, the member who is collecting the money can serve as an agent for the group and order the powder.
When it arrives, the agent then distributes the shipment to the members who have already paid for their share.
Under no circumstances (except in cases where the club has a Federal License) can the agent or the club he's a part of, sell any of the powder to anyone who was not part of the initial order.
Thank you Jim.
Friends and neighbors....this is worth repeating.
PLEASE do not ignore the correct procedure for ordering blackpowder as described here. Doing so puts you in violation of FEDERAL LAW. Just because nobody has been arrested lately for this "technical violation" do NOT think that it can't happen.
New guy shows up at your club with his shiny new rifle and wants to "get into" BP shooting. In an effort to help him along...someone steps up and sells him a pound of powder to get him going.
"New Guy" turns out to be an ATF agent and somebody is getting arrested and going to court.
With all the attention this week to "BOMBS"...don't be shocked if some hard charging "investigative reporter" doesn't start looking into just how easily EXPLOSIVE Blackpowder is bought and sold all over the country. Don't hand'em an "easy one" by ignoring the correct and legal procedures.
Thanks again Jim.

 

[Bent Sight]

I went to the range yesterday to compare patches treated with Murphy's Oil Soap and patches treated with 1:7 Ballistol and water. I recently viewed a video made by Mike Bellevue who pointed out " ....with any decent rifle you can shoot a rock wrapped in a leaf at 25 yards and it ought to give you decent groups", so I won't eat up bandwith posting 25 yard groups in the future.

Five shot groups were fired with my T/C .45 caliber Hawken, CCI # 11 caps, 40g of Hodgdon Triple Seven FFFG and square pillow ticking patches 0.015" thick. The load chronographs at 1450 fps 15 feet from the muzzle.

I shot a 1/2" x 1/2" group at 50 meters with the patches treated with Murphy's Oil Soap.

At 100 yards, the Ballistol treated patches gave me a group that was 5-1/4" Wide x 5-3/4" High. Murphy's Oil Soap treated patches gave me a group that was 4-1/4"" Wide x 3-1/4" High. The wind picked up when I was firing the M.O.S. group and I think it opened up the group horizontally.

I am going to test M.O.S. patches in my .50 caliber Thompson Center Renegade the next time I hit the range.

 

[Dr5x]

It's good every so often to examine one's bigotries.
I have long objected to MLS (Murphy's Oil Soap) without actually testing it in any way which both a bit unfair and largely dumb

There are many folks using it straight and mixed with a variety of other liquids.
They seem to feel it does the job but I wonder what kind of groups they are getting. My prejudice stems from the words OIL ad Soap. both of which might very well add slickness too the bore but Since I noticed "Honey Bunches of Oats has no honey in it I have wondered if MOS actually has Oil or soap in it.

Someone this AM reported that he used MOS in a somewhat apologetic manner. I decided to enquire what his results were when I came home from breakfast but could not relocate the post..

I wouldlike to hear from a MOS user. Always trying to learn.

Dutch

 

[leal536]

I realize that this thread is pretty old but...Having read the comments, or most of them, I felt a desire to respond. I have used the Murphy's Oil Soap/Hydrogen Peroxide/Alcohol mixture with great success. When I first started using it, I had to start calling it "Bad Ass Gun ****"!! I have a 45 caliber rifle that fouled really bad and this stuff cleaned it so well that, well, I won't use anything else on that particular rifle. I am not terribly accurate when shooting and did not notice any difference when using this mixture. I'm all about going out, burning some powder and lead and having fun! Cleaning was always such a chore for me and I tried (unsuccessfully most of the time) to get my husband to clean my rifle for me! When he left this world for another, I had no choice but to clean my rifle/pistol myself and now have no problems.

 

[Jmlabrum]

Every product must have a Manufaturers Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) on file by Federal law. Just look it up on the internet. (MSDS MUrphy's Oil Soap). Your grandmother's soap was sodium hydroxide (lye) and water. +very slippery or oily plus dangerous! Current product is potassium hydroxide and water. Less dangerous.

Black powder is a moisture of charcoal and sulphur, neither of which has any known solvent, and potassium nitrate, which only has water as a solvent. When it burns only about half turn to gas, the remainder solids, most of which is potassium hydroxide (potash) which only has has water as a solvent. If you insist on washing your barrel, uses only hot! water. I used anti-freeze (toxic) for years with great results and no rust.

Today, like my Dutch oven brothers, I hold that no water will touch my weapon. I scrub it with a bristled brush, blow it out with a shot of carbon dioxide, and a light swab of tallow (unsalted) or if I am lazy, Ballistol. NAPA 's "Radiator Antirust" or cutting oil works, but they are both petroleum distillate. I then give it another shot of CO2 plug the barrel and return the nipple.

Potato John, age 86

 

[Zonie]

Plain old water and a drop or two of dishwashing soap work fine for cleaning my guns. The soap really isn't needed if I just use spit for a patch lube but usually I use a patch lube that has a vegetable oil in it so the soap takes care of that.

When cleaning a black powder gun the cleaning solution does not need to be a solvent for sulfur or charcoal. They both just wash away.
The remainder of the fouling produced by shooting black powder is all water soluable and almost instantly dissolves when the water contacts it.
These same salts do not dissolve when they are subjected to any kind of oil so things like the old Hoppe's with the banana smell does very little to remove them.

 

[ts086]

I used to use Murphy's with equal parts Hydrogen Peroxide and Alcohol, it dissolved the all the junk in the barrel as well as the cap residue on the outside, and did a good job all over..I have now switched to just per-moisten patches,that are kept in a plastic jar with Gojo hand cleaner, the one with out the pumices does an even better than the above formula and no worries about rust in the barrel because it does not use any water...and the price of GoJo hand cleaner is dirt cheap

 

[Bent Sight]

I went to the range today with my .50 caliber Thompson Renegade rifle and tested pure Murphy's Oil Soap on 0.015" pillow ticking patches at 100 yards. The rifle has a 1:66 twist barrel. I fired 5 shot groups with lead round balls and the M.O.S. patches shot larger groups than the 0.015" patches treated with 1:7 Ballistol/Water.

The M.O.S. patches netted a 7" W x 4-1/2" H group. The Ballistol patches gave me a 4-5/8" W x 2-1/2" H group with four shots inside 2" at 100 yards. The results were opposite of what I observed when using the same patches in my .45 caliber T/C Hawken.

I learned a few things through testing these two patches in three different rifles. My 1:66 twist barrel groups better with larger charge weights of powder and drier patches when shooting round balls. My 1:48 twist barrels group better with lower charge weights regardless of patch lube when shooting round balls. The higher charge weights did not do well with the M.O.S. patches in any of the three rifles.

 

[Alaskan Woodsman]

Plain old water and a drop or two of dishwashing soap work fine for cleaning my guns. The soap really isn't needed if I just use spit for a patch lube but usually I use a patch lube that has a vegetable oil in it so the soap takes care of that.

When cleaning a black powder gun the cleaning solution does not need to be a solvent for sulfur or charcoal. They both just wash away.
The remainder of the fouling produced by shooting black powder is all water soluable and almost instantly dissolves when the water contacts it.
These same salts do not dissolve when they are subjected to any kind of oil so things like the old Hoppe's with the banana smell does very little to remove them.

Sooo. Ditch the Hoppes Black Powder Solvent?

I washed mine in a pail of warm water with a few drops of dish soap; cleaned out the nipple area after pouring soapy warm water down the barrel along side the cleaning rod and sucking / pushy water up & down the barrel; as I did for 40-years with the TC barrel.

Took off the nipple, swabbed the barrel with dry patches till dry, ran a ballistol water 3:1 mix up and down the dry barrel; still clean. More dry patches. Que-tipped the nipple port until clean and dry.

I then Rem oiled a couple patches down the barrel to coat it and also coated the barrel & nipple with oil and put the nipple back in. I whipped down the outside, put it back on the stock and ready to go.

 

[Jmlabrum]

I love hydrogen peroxide on muzzle loaders. Nothing gives me a rust finish on the OUTSIDE of the barrel than H2O2, water with a shot of oxygen! Why would you put it in moose milk?

 

[ts086]

Why I switched, that Murphy's formula I mentioned 1/3's makes a great hand cleaner...I never said it was moose milk. We used that cleaner between relays to quickly dissolve what ever was in the barrel for the next event. When the shoot was over we did the last cleaning with lots of patches and towels to remove any of the solvent we used...then the WD 40 finish to rid any moisture, some guys would pull the breach plug and dry it that way as well.

But like I said that is all in the past as I use the GoJo waterless hand cleaner. with out the pumices, a tube of that is under $4.00 and it not only cleans your musket it does a good job on your hands...not as good at the Murphy's formula did, that formula was also great for any cuts too...the alcohol and peroxide really took care of any germs you had.
Everyone has their own favorite formula for cleaning up stuff for what ever reason, I chimed in because the thread was about Murphy's Oil Soap and how it was part of a cleaning formula that we in the N-SSA used and many still do. www.n-ssa.org

 

[Hans74]

I use MOS for cleaning my rifle but I have never used it in or for a lube.The only patch lube I use is straight Vaseline. I have not found anything that works as well as straight Vaseline that lets me shoot a whole match with out having to swab the bore after a couple shots.

 

[Zonie]

Sooo. Ditch the Hoppes Black Powder Solvent?

...

No. I did not say, "Ditch the Hoppes Black Powder Solvent".
It is made specifically for black powder fouling.

I was talking about the old Hoppes that is made for modern smokeless powder. It is the stuff I remember as a kid from the banana smell every time my dad would clean his pistols.
For cleaning smokeless powder guns, I think it is the best but it is not made for cleaning black powder.

 

[Alaskan Woodsman]

No. I did not say, "Ditch the Hoppes Black Powder Solvent".
It is made specifically for black powder fouling.

I was talking about the old Hoppes that is made for modern smokeless powder. It is the stuff I remember as a kid from the banana smell every time my dad would clean his pistols.
For cleaning smokeless powder guns, I think it is the best but it is not made for cleaning black powder.

Ok, thanks Jim. I have plain old Hoppes to clean my shotguns and rimfire and I too remember it from when my dad cleaned his guns. ~ Glen

 

[SgtMaj65]

Dutch, I've used Murphy's Oil Soap for about a year now in both my .50 GPR and my .50 T/C Renegade. I only use it to swab between shots at the range using my own unscientific concoction of 1 part Murphy's Oil Soap, 1 part castor oil and 6 parts 70% isopropyl alcohol. Seems to work really well and I have not noticed any ill effects in either my target shooting or in overall health of my barrel. I thoroughly clean all my rifles right after sessions at the range with a gallon of plain old hot water with about an ounce of Murphy's mixed in, and then swab for several days with Slip2000 extreme weapons lube. I love the stuff in all my modern and BP firearms.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Here's the thread, Dutch: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/308451/

Btw, I've been using "MAP", aka "Friendship Speed Juice" for more than a decade and find it to be an excellent solution for removing BP fouling from the bbl., lock, and your hands after a range session.

I've used MAP which is equal parts Murphy's Oil Soap, 91% Isopropyl Alcohol (70% if you can't find 91%), and Hydrogen Peroxide for 18-years now and like it a lot. It cleans quickly and easily and has never been a problem. When I would clean my rifle at reenactments, fellow reenactors started coming to me to ask if they could use some to clean their guns.

Don't use Hydrogen Peroxide by itself on your rifle or you will get rust. However mixing it with the Alcohol and Murphy's Oil Soap nullifies the rusting part and it helps significantly with the cleaning.

Twisted_1in66
Dan

 

[Rabbit Ears]

"Dutch, MAP, etc. is equal parts of MOS, household peroxide, and rubbing (isopropyl) alcohol. Not my formulation by a longshot, but it works well and quickly."

I've been using the VERY SAME formula since the early 1990's...… with a kettle of boiling water to heat the barrel, dry, then oil. My barrel still gleams like new.

If I do not have the MOS formula to use. (My grandpa's way of doing it)I use Ivory soap shavings boiled in water..... poured HOT down the barrel while scrubbing it out with a bronze bore brush (nipple hole plugged)..... now rinse out with clean BOILING water, dry barrel inside and out...oil bore and outside of barrel... inspect bore and clean flash or nipple hole. Reinstall barrel. Happy Hunting / target shooting.

 

[Roger Murray]

Hey Dutch, Thank you for starting this thread. The topic is on my mind because I finally finished the Moose Milk my buddy gave me when I bought my first flinter nine years ago. That means I need to brew up some more. I've used MOS to clean the stock an my antique double rifle, and it's an ingredient in many lube recipes I have seen, but I never thought about using it to clean the bore. I've always used some variant of Simple Orange. Now I'll have to try MOS to clean the bore. And apparently I was right to wonder whether I really needed any other ingredients in the lube when I'm on the range (thanks Cositrike). Usually the snow's on the ground (like now) when I'm hunting, so I use that Trapper's Pure Mink Oil goo from TOTW for that pursuit.