Help reading these patches..

[S.Kenton]

So I shot my GPR again today along with a good friend of mine who also just entered the realm of black powder shooting. We shots at his place in his woods to get out of the 30 mph wind we had today. We shot around 30-40 times each around 25-60 yards. My rifle maintained descent accuracy, but I wanted to start looking for my patches explaining to my buddy that the patches tell a story of how the lube is working along with sharp rifling ect. Anyhow, we both shot about the same load, same thickness of patches same size round ball. My load was 70 grains of fff goex, .016 pillow ticking, and a 530 round ball And a homemade spray on lube, I swabbed between shots. Anyhow his load being the same except he used ff goex. His patches were exceptional... nearly reusable Mine were blown apart, at times the ball looked as if it blew right through the patch. I actually found a perfectly round piece of patch beside one of my recovered patches that had been blown through. Regrettably I didn’t take any pictures of today’s activities. When I got home, I decided to scrub my bore with some steel wool, then graduating to a piece of scotchbrite... then I shot some more and looked for my patches... it’s hard to find patches in 30 mph wind. I found a few, I graduated from .016 pillow ticking to .018 and .020 tight woven linen. The last patch to the right is denim and was seriously tough to load. My lube was 1 part Murphy’s oil soap, 1 part rubbing alcohol and 1 part ammonia. This was used for the pillow ticking. The three to the right were lubed with pure olive oil. They are intact, but you can see where they started to blow apart... ever so slightly... whatcha think?

 

[S.Kenton]

The three pillow ticking patches...

 

[S.Kenton]

What would cause these blown out patches? My powder charge isn’t too high, my lube is what I normally use, I’m leaning towards sharp rifling in the barrel?

 

[S.Kenton]

My bore has been smoothed or crowned

 

[ord sgt]

If your rifle is new, then yes, the rifling will have sharp edges. That will cause patches to tear. The sharp edges will smooth out with shooting. But you have started the process with the steel wool and scotchbrite pads. One little difference between you and your buddy. FFFg will create more pressure, pushing the ball out of the barrel at a greater speed. The barrel will get better over time. Quite normal for the wear on the patches.

 

[Art Caputo]

I would be suspect of the lube (Ammonia, OH, MOS), used with the pillow ticking patches. Lubricity may be too low.

 

[LawrenceA]

Have you shot again since the scotchbrite treatment?
Did you say that the problem was almost eliminated with olive oil?
It would appear you used the olive oil last, so after 70 to 80 shots. After this you polished the bore.
Try again.
It does look like sharp rifling or lube.
If it still blows patches see if there is a ring of lube on the crown after firing. This can indicate that there is plenty of lube.
Might be worth dropping the charge 10% as this would br close to ffg.

 

[S.Kenton]

Yes I agree with all of you and all great advice, I will drop charge some and lube with olive oil and see what patches look like after. Lawrence, yes I used the olive oil last after scotch brining and steel wooling. This barrel isn’t new though... and buddy was using the exact same rifle with the same lube... things that make ya go Hmmmmmm.. I’ll keep shooting with and see.
off hand at 30 yards.. 22 target.. fixed it, will not repeat!

 

[S.Kenton]

Another pic

 

[rich pierce]

So, looks like you are using square patches and not cutting at the muzzle in some cases. How long is the leg on your short starter? Is the leg on your short starter binding at all after the ball is short started, like it’s close to bore diameter and a tight fit with the patch material you’re using? Just check that the leg is quite short and not so close to bore diameter.

 

[S.Kenton]

It is a very short short starter, the shaft is 3/8, diameter.

 

[Grenadier1758]

So I shot my GPR again today along with a good friend of mine who also just entered the realm of black powder shooting. We shots at his place in his woods to get out of the 30 mph wind we had today. We shot around 30-40 times each around 25-60 yards. My rifle maintained descent accuracy, but I wanted to start looking for my patches explaining to my buddy that the patches tell a story of how the lube is working along with sharp rifling ect. Anyhow, we both shot about the same load, same thickness of patches same size round ball. My load was 70 grains of fff goex, .016 pillow ticking, and a 530 round ball And a homemade spray on lube, I swabbed between shots. Anyhow his load being the same except he used ff goex. His patches were exceptional... nearly reusable Mine were blown apart, at times the ball looked as if it blew right through the patch. I actually found a perfectly round piece of patch beside one of my recovered patches that had been blown through. Regrettably I didn’t take any pictures of today’s activities. When I got home, I decided to scrub my bore with some steel wool, then graduating to a piece of scotchbrite... then I shot some more and looked for my patches... it’s hard to find patches in 30 mph wind. I found a few, I graduated from .016 pillow ticking to .018 and .020 tight woven linen. The last patch to the right is denim and was seriously tough to load. My lube was 1 part Murphy’s oil soap, 1 part rubbing alcohol and 1 part ammonia. This was used for the pillow ticking. The three to the right were lubed with pure olive oil. They are intact, but you can see where they started to blow apart... ever so slightly... whatcha think?

I'm going to jump in here with @rich pierce. The square patches are gathering around the short starter. The first patches with the circular cut are consistent with patches cut by a sharp crown. Your picture of the crown looks as if you have smoothed it out. Your lubrication of MOS, alcohol and ammonia isn't giving you patches enough lubrication and I think the culprit is ammonia. Water would be a better choice than ammonia. Shredded patches are an indication of sharp lands. You have smoothed the lands with the steel wool and the scotchbrite. With the minor cutting that is still present, you may need to do some more smoothing. The use of 3fg powder generates more pressure in the firing and more pressure from the lands on the patch and the ball. The reduction of pressure from using 2fg powder will ease the stress on the patches.

Change your patch lube and use 2fg GOEX powder.

 

[S.Kenton]

Man I hate to change my powder...ice used it for nearly every rifle I’ve owned... I ll try it though and report back. I’ll use 2f and olive oil for lube.

 

[oldracer]

Here is what I use in my 50 cal rifle: square pillow ticking just enough to get around the ball. Load is 80 grains of Goex FFG poured with a full length funnel (Pedersoli), patch lube is Bore Butter which I rub in the barrel side. Enough lube so there is some on the muzzle which I rub in. Wipe with damp then dry patches after each shot.

I have found no difference in round or square cut patches! The ball is .490 and thickness of the patch is .015, bought at Walmart years ago.

As I have read here, this is why shooting muzzle loaders are fun!

 

[LawrenceA]

Out of curiosity have you tried ya mates patches?
May eliminate a variable

 

[painter]

I don't worry about the edges of the patch. Depending on the weave, that can happen when exiting the barrel.

 

[S.Kenton]

Out of curiosity have you tried ya mates patches?
May eliminate a variable

Yes he was using the exact same patches and exact same lube... shooting the exact model of rifle I was. His is a newer GPR, mines an older one. His patches could almost have been reused.
The difference was powder... everything else was the same except what I stated about the rifles.

 

[LawrenceA]

Ah ok.
I got in my head he was using your rifle.

 

[S.Kenton]

It was a bit confusing I admit, my buddy has a newer Lyman GPR, I have an older one, I shared my patches and patch lube with him because he is still experimenting with the correct load for his rifle. His spent patches were near perfect using the exact same 70 grain load as mine, however I used 3f, he used 2f. We used the same size 530 ball. Anyhow, I THINK I have it figured out as a patch thickness issue. I also switched lubes to olive oil. I’ll shoot again when it warms up and report back.