Mass produced flintlocks

[DirtyDusty]

Are the the older lyman flintlocks reliable? Or is it a hit or miss scenario? I was watching a blackpowder channel on you tube and the guy on there was saying that if you wanted flintlock, you needed to go the custom route to get reliability. Is this the norm?

 

[Cruzatte]

Categorical statements such as "all___________before 1975 are...." tend to raise suspicion with me. So I'm prone to disregard the custom rifle statement as credible.

There are ways around that though. Jim Kibler seems to enjoy a stellar reputation on this forum. There must be a reason.

 

[DirtyDusty]

Kibler isn’t making a hawkens kit at this time. Or that would be my pick.

 

[Cruzatte]

Ah yes, there's that. Frankly, I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a Lyman GPR, if I wanted one.

 

[hanshi]

A factory flintlock is more than likely to work just fine. But, factory flint "locks" are still somewhat "hit or miss". I had one from Pedersoli quite sometime ago and it should have been the cat's meow; only it wasn't. It was accurate, handy and looked darn good; but it didn't operate worth a flip. on a good day I could get off 3 shots and it stopped sparking. New flints had no effect. I was forced to fit a percussion lock on it to get reliability. But I still changed it back and forth pretty frequently. I killed plenty of deer with it in percussion mode and surprisingly killed at least two others with the flint lock mounted. It was a high dollar rifle and the expectation was it would work as intended. But Pedersoli was no better in that department than the cheaper Traditions & CVAs. Would I recommend a hunting flintlock from Pedersoli, not sure but still possible. Considering their astro-prices it would be no. I'd trust Traditions probably more but their prices keep rising as well.

 

[EC121]

Just about any lock will benefit from some work. Some just need less than others. Any lock made in large numbers will need a little polishing. On the other hand Jud Brennan will make you a totally handmade lock for about $5000.

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

If you're going to go the Lyman route pick up an Investarm made one or find an Investarm dealer and buy one, they still sell the rifles they made for Lyman under their own models. I have a Pedersoli made GPR flint and hate the lock on the thing. I also haven't been able to find an aftermarket replacement for it so it just sits in the safe.

 

[Thingamajiggy]

I've shot lymans hunting since '79 and still shoot them. Though I've gotten into the custom market, would not hesitate shooting my deerstalker or GPR. Just picked up a .58 flint investarm that's a dandy RB shooter.

 

[flatcreek]

I have a Lyman Trade Gun and it works fine. Did some tuning on the lock and the touch hole. I haven't used 10 flints in 500 shots, can usually fire 10 or 20 shots without a problem. It's an Investarms model.
Phil

 

[Grenadier1758]

Are the the older lyman flintlocks reliable? Or is it a hit or miss scenario? I was watching a blackpowder channel on you tube and the guy on there was saying that if you wanted flintlock, you needed to go the custom route to get reliability. Is this the norm?

The locks will certainly benefit from a good tuning of the lock to get the most sparks into the pan to get the powder to ignite. Then the road to reliability will be through the flash channel. Custom rifles sure are nice, but knowing your rifle and how it is built is the route to reliability. The Lyman breeches have a similar breech to the T/C breech. These have long flash channels that have to be clean so powder can flow from the powder chamber through the flash channel to reach the inside edge of the touch hole. Tuned locks and clear flash channels are the route to reliability.

 

[#blackpowderbill]

Are the the older lyman flintlocks reliable? Or is it a hit or miss scenario? I was watching a blackpowder channel on you tube and the guy on there was saying that if you wanted flintlock, you needed to go the custom route to get reliability. Is this the norm?

YouTubers many are spouting mythology learned from others

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

YouTubers many are spouting mythology learned from others

Or just making stuff up.

 

[Hermit Tim]

I'm thinking that guy doesn't know what he is talking about. Or is selling custom rifles. The customs sure are nice, and I'm sure they could be more reliable if built by one of many excellent builders, but thousands upon thousands of deer have fallen to Lyman and Investarms flintlocks. And Traditions flinters. And CVA flinters. As the other guys said; polish what needs polished and learn your rifle and it will be fine. There are great rifles and lemons in every brand. And some folks are just gun snobs

 

[DrLaw]

I agree on spouting mythology or just making stuff up. Now, since you are here and I am a fountain of knowledge for my readers, I have this wisdom to impart upon you.

Some will work great and some will not. I've heard about some but have no real experience except with one Pedersoli and two Kiblers.

On the Pedersoli, it was a rock crusher, but, I followed the advice of the late Paul Valandingham and carefully ground down the mainspring to where it sparks well, but does not shorten the life of the flint. As for the Kiblers, both work extremely well (Thank you, Mr. Kibler) right out of the shipping box. I have gone about 30 shots recently with the same flint in a SMR and did about 10 the other day without a hiccup with my Woodsrunner. Instant ignition, no hangfires. I could not ask for anything more.

You have done the right thing, grasshopper, by seeking the collective wisdom of the forum, awakening the great spirit Hanshi (above) to rain his vast wisdom upon thee.

You know, I am having too much fun right now cranking this stuff out. I should probably stop before you all start getting out your boots, eh?

The Doc is out now.

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

Hanshi's parting comment about price is a good point. Many of the imports are getting into the lower end of the custom stuff and some of them exceed by several hundred dollars what a Kibler kit costs. Quite frankly it doesn't take that much stuff to finish out one of his kits.
Another point to add to this would be the quality issue. With the goins on about the world the last few years everything has suffered and there have been numerous threads on here pertaining to manufacturing issues and stuff leaving the factory in sad shape if not borderline unusable condition.

 

[#blackpowderbill]

So does a Kibler fall into the mass production bucket?
Not millions, maybe batch or one off produced.

With the exception of a few quirks in the "mass" commercial products.
The biggest problem I see is the owners failure to understand how his muzzle loader operates.

From cleaning,load development,sight regulation & the inability to be consistent.

When I was shooting TC,CVA,Lyman guns,I can guarantee that mine were not like the others.
May have looked basically the same.

Custom anything IMPO is taking an idea and modifying it fit my requirements.

The next shoot you attend observe who all has the same gun. Then look at the problems each one has while shooting.
OR
You can just read threads on this forum and identify the same problems over and over .
Is it machine or man?

 

[Hermit Tim]

So does a Kibler fall into the mass production bucket?
Not millions, maybe batch or one off produced.

With the exception of a few quirks in the "mass" commercial products.
The biggest problem I see is the owners failure to understand how his muzzle loader operates.

From cleaning,load development,sight regulation & the inability to be consistent.

When I was shooting TC,CVA,Lyman guns,I can guarantee that mine were not like the others.
May have looked basically the same.

Custom anything IMPO is taking an idea and modifying it fit my requirements.

The next shoot you attend observe who all has the same gun. Then look at the problems each one has while shooting.
OR
You can just read threads on this forum and identify the same problems over and over .
Is it machine or man?

Mostly man, I think.

 

[wojciste]

I have a TC Renegade bought in 85, a Pedersoli bought in 90, and a Cabella's (Investarms) bought around 95. All have worked flawlessly through many a woods walk shoot. Your looking at 20 plus rounds and never had to replace a flint. Maybe just lucky.

 

[Wirehair]

I recently helped a newbie get his Pedersoli kit build on paper. On this particular rifle, the lock was fast and reliable through about 15 shots or so. The fired patches were perfect and accuracy was very good. He was happy and I was impressed.

 

[Surfinator58]

I know the video you are speaking of that guy is one of those custom Nazis we have them here on this side as well they believe only $2,000 plus custom rifles are capable of shooting don't listen to it it's manure I have Italian guns Spanish guns I even have a couple of India made that work flawlessly after some tuning it's what you can afford and what suits your need that counts most the rest is Balderdash