Kibler has announced a Hawken Kit in the works.

[th1840]

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At 71 and counting I cant get the stem in the watch to run the other direction. I own a couple of Hawkens and I cut my teeth on a TC Hawken many years ago. The ones I own are Bergmann Hawkens one full stock and one half stock. Im happy to see Jim is going to make one. But I dont think I will be ordering one as when I go to the gun safe now the Woodsrunner and the lighter guns seem to jump out at me. Guess I need to start pumping some iron.

I remember that article from the Buckskin Report, John Baird old Boudacious

 

[BS]

My question is will the Hawkins barrel have a solid under lug [should be under rib]?

CNC machined into the bottom of the barrel?

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

My question is will the Hawkins barrel have a solid under lug?

CNC machined into the bottom of the barrel?

What difference would it make

 

[BS]

What difference would it make

Less parts to stock, and he could do it. [solid under rib]

 

[sturmkatze]

Less parts to stock, and he could do it. [solid under rib]

Why? Absolutely WHY?

 

[sturmkatze]

Does it really matter how many? Bridger had one and that works for me. I can re-enact being Jim Bridger.

They cost $25. They couldn't scape that much up? I would have had I been born then. I wouldn't have been a trapper. I would have been a hunter for the brigade. My gun would have been a tool to make a living with.

In today’s dollars, how much do you think that was? It was a lot of money. You assume then was like now , but it wasn’t. “I’d have been…” you don’t know.

 

[user 36911]

In today’s dollars, how much do you think that was? It was a lot of money. You assume them was like more, but it wasn’t. “I’d have been…” you don’t know.

$25 in 1800 is equal to $610 today. I would have owned a Hawken back in the fur trade era.

https://www.officialdata.org/us/inf...alent,cumulative price increase of 2,342.77%.

 

[sturmkatze]

I suggested that Jim look into the Hawken Shop kit. I'm also wondering why you guys never looked into it? It's as authentic as you can get. Kit made from the original blueprints and the parts made on the original machines.

What's not to like? Providing you like a heavy gun?

What original machines? I thought it was just that they had bought the name from the heirs back in the 70’s/80’s and copied some real guns closely…

 

[sturmkatze]

$25 in 1800 is equal to $610 today. I would have owned a Hawken back in the fur trade era.

https://www.officialdata.org/us/inf...alent,cumulative price increase of 2,342.77%.

I still doubt it. They were not that common. And you without not have made that much money then. I know, your superior abilities works have made you a rock star.

 

[user 36911]

What original machines? I thought it was just that they had bought the name from the heirs back in the 70’s/80’s and copied some real guns closely…

They have some of the original machinery. At least that's what I read. Even without it their kit seems very authentic.

 

[user 36911]

I still doubt it. They were not that common. And you without not have made that much money then. I know, your superior abilities works have made you a rock star.

Are we into insults now? You don't know me at all. Yet, you act like you do. I know i'd own a Hawken. You can believe what you want. I could care less.

 

[sturmkatze]

They have some of the original machinery. At least that's what I read. Even without it their kit seems very authentic.

I’d ask what? I’m pretty sure I read they use modern commercial barrels. I looked at this back in 1981 or so. I think I talked to them on the phone. And, I think I looked in their site in the last year or so and it doesn’t say that. If they had that, you KNOW that they’d be touting that. If you go to this page, it’s for their rifle kits: The Hawken Shop-Hawken Rifles

Also, they don’t mention the first guy to do this, Art something. It says they bought it in 1990. They aren’t even in Missouri, it’s been moved to Washington state. Sure, it will say “Hawken” because they own the name. I’ve not held one. You’d have to ask an expert.

 

[user 36911]

I’d ask what? I’m pretty sure I read they use modern commercial barrels. I looked at this back in 1981 or so. I think I talked to them on the phone. And, I think I looked in their site in the last year or so and it doesn’t say that. If they had that, you KNOW that they’d be touting that. If you go to this page, it’s for their rifle kits: The Hawken Shop-Hawken Rifles

Also, they don’t mention the first guy to do this, Art something. It says they bought it in 1990. They aren’t even in Missouri, it’s been moved to Washington state. Sure, it will say “Hawken” because they own the name. I’ve not held one. You’d have to ask an expert.

I have better things to do than do the research for you. It's not that important.

I do have to ask one thing. You seem to hate the Hawken rifle. Why are you so involved in them? You don't see me claiming to know about longrifles. I've owned a couple and decided I didn't really like them. I have no desire to talk about them now.

 

[Kmcmichael]

It seems that the Hawken brothers set up shop as the trapper era was ending. There could have been one at the last rendezvous? Those guys mentioned bought the guns later in life.
I was given a TC and have assembled a Lyman kit for someone.

Why do they weigh so much? :
- the hooked breach;
- barrel size needed for the design;
- some sort of voodoo;
- are they cursed by Uncle Evil or some other diabolical interference.

My Tc weighs 1.5 lbs more with a foot shorter barrel than my Woodsrunner?

 

[user 36911]

It seems that the Hawken brothers set up shop as the trapper era was ending. There could have been one at the last rendezvous? Those guys mentioned bought the guns later in life.
I was given a TC and have assembled a Lyman kit for someone.

Why do they weigh so much? :
- the hooked breach;
- barrel size needed for the design;
- some sort of voodoo;
- are they cursed by Uncle Evil or some other diabolical interference.

My Tc weighs 1.5 lbs more with a foot shorter barrel than my Woodsrunner?

The first half stock Hawken came out of the Hawken shop around 1830-1831. They made fullstock flintlocks. I never saw or read about a half stock flintlock. The fur trade era was around 1820 to 1840. That gave the Hawken Bros 9-10 years to make the half stock Hawken caplocks. Certainly enough time to sell some to the mountain men trappers. Of course they sold more up to 1860 or so to frontiersmen and hunters.

 

[Kmcmichael]

The first half stock Hawken came out of the Hawken shop around 1830-1831. They made fullstock flintlocks. I never saw or read about a half stock flintlock. The fur trade era was around 1820 to 1840. That gave the Hawken Bros 9-10 years to make the half stock Hawken caplocks. Certainly enough time to sell some to the mountain men trappers. Of course they sold more up to 1860 or so to frontiersmen and hunters.

Yes but when was the caplock first made? Some state they were not available prior to 1840. Were the little caps available in the fur trapping region prior to 1850?

 

[user 36911]

Here's Bob Roller's opinion on the Hawken Shop kit.


The stamping on the top of the pistol barrel is J&S Hawkens with a "s". I have an article coming out in the October Muzzle Blasts on this particular pistol. I am in agreement with Jim Gordon and Hanson that the "s" added to the name of Hawken is good reason to believe that the pistol, in its original flintlock configuration, is of eastern or European origin and not manufactured by the original Hawken shop in St. Louis BUT only sold through the Hawken shop.

The price of THE HAWKEN SHOP kit is $1400 and the quality of the parts and work done on them is worth it. The breech is made of #8620, X-rayed and fit to the barrel properly. The Rice barrel with a 1:48 twist has been stamped S. HAWKEN ST. LOUIS in the proper spot and dovetails have been cut for the front and rear sights and underlugs for the barrel keys, again in the proper spot. The lock on a T. Gibbons lock plate is finished, as are the double-set triggers. The underib has the 4 holes drilled and into the barrel, and the position of the two thimbles is positioned properly. All holes on the breech plug tang are dilled and countersunk and the 2 holes on the trigger bar for the tang screws have been positioned properly. The 2 holes on the buttplate and toeplate are also positioned properly, drilled and countersunk. The kit has the parts and instruction for making an original Hawken-style ramrod of hickory. With each and every component part of the kit is a sealed bag with the proper bolts or screws, PLUS and extra set. In other words, a lot of time and thought has gone into offering the component parts, so that you can assemble them in the proper place WITHOUT MAKING ANY MISTAKES. Time is money. Mistakes waste time. The final product is as close to as you can get to a late-period S. Hawken rifle.

 

[moonlori83]

I don't have any mountains where I live. And I don't have a horse either. I haven't seen an Indian or Buffalo to shoot in 20 years. I just can't see draging around a Harkins in Iowa.

In your case there are no Red coats to contend with your Brown Bess either in Ioway. Ho hum...

I don't have any mountains where I live. And I don't have a horse either. I haven't seen an Indian or Buffalo to shoot in 20 years. I just can't see draging around a Harkins in Iowa.

 

[BS]

Why? Absolutely WHY?

Why Not?
A machined solid under rib.
No screw holes or rivets or soldier.
Quicker assembly.
Just a thought.

 

[Jedd]

I don't know about the stock market, but if "KBL" was on the Wall Street exchange, he'd be he hottest stock right about now!

I’d buy that stock. His whole business model impresses me.