My Kibler SMR Build Log

[reddogge]

I think I tried that once. It wasn't.

"This rifle" ... hmmm ...

As I said, the Kibler Southern Mountain Rifle kit builld is terminated. The "My Kibler SMR Build Log" is terminated. How long this actual thread continues is up to forum staff.

I do have a very nice collection of functional Kibler SMR kit rifle parts that will no longer assemble into a 100% correct Kibler Southern Mountain Rifle. But ... it's quite possible they might yet assemble into some kind of a nice functioning and shooting flintlock muzzle-loading rifle. Am I going to document that build here? Not on your life!!

Thank you.

 

[Campbell]

Most entertaining thread on the whole forum.

 

[BadDaditood]

And now for something completely different-
I started reading Fate is the Hunter by EK Gann (for the second time)
Fantastic read for anyone even remotely interested in aviation.

 

[Joemolf]

I think it turned out to be a beautiful barrel:
View attachment 241777

Bevelled muzzle and ...
View attachment 241778
... abbreviated tang.

I love it. I'm keeping it. As is.

The blueing looks great and the nice thing I found about using a cold blue it can easily be touched up down the road should it need and it looks good. What did you use to blue the barrel Brownells Jax or other? I’ve used Brownells but am going to try the Jax black which seems to be very popular. Keep the good luck going.

 

[Joemolf]

Sorry to differ. I have built 4 SMR's for customers. All have come pre-drilled, I think. You could be correct though. My old battle-damaged brain gets things confused quite often. Semper Fi.

I’ve myself have purchased four SMRs from Jim in different wood types and cals. I purchased them over a period of about a year when they were first released with the barrel tabs installed. None came predrilled and what I thought was so cool is the little drill guide. I actually did get one barrel that was drilled but must have been from one of the shop builds. It was a a 36 caliber barrel. Rifle turned out very nice and I liked that little jig so much I ordered a couple more. I wish they were available in 5/64 and 3/32 I just like larger pins but live with the 1/16 pins and always slot the tab which is sometimes forgotten.

 

[Joemolf]

My extra chunk of wood showed up in a separate box a few days after the rifle came.

Xtra chunk of wood? For what rifle the Colonial or Wood Runner? Not the Smrs right?

 

[DCAN]

Xtra chunk of wood? For what rifle the Colonial or Wood Runner? Not the Smrs right?

SMR. Woodsrunner came with a few pieces to test finish on.

 

[Joemolf]

Yes. The exisisting holes were only about half a hole diameter off, but in the wrong direction. I probably could have got by, but your hole location is best. I might even drill at a slight angle to get some more space between the new hole and the old hole. Titebond wood glue is pretty strong though, when it's dried, and pretty permanent, and I've never had a problem in other projects with a drill bit trying to follow the old hole, if it's complete filled solid with toothpick and glue. A proper fitting piece of wood is best, I'm sure, but I had none at the time, and I wanted it to set overnight. It should be fine.

Were the screw holes really off. I thought they are purposely drilled off so to pull the butt plate up tight against the stock. I personally would never locate them any way. I had no problems with mine

 

[Appowner]

You may be right on that though he seemed to be on track with testing and all. Probably got busy with other happens to me all the time. The one thing with CA glues from my model airplane experience and trust me I built many is that it is hard a glass and can be more than a bear to blend (unless today’s formula is different). So I’ve purchased Starbond and used it on my TVM paying close attention to wiping any excess. I would avoid any fast setting CA like crazy glue sets immediately. I am not a fan of accelerators and try to avoid using them. The Starbond which I do recommend is a slow cure thick and medium CA. Slow does mean overnight you should test on scrap material. So when using in a barrel channel by all means resinstall the barrel with some wax paper between the barrel and repair. I have not used the accelerator I purchased though I do remember from model airplane days the accelerator caused heavy application (gap filling) to swell and expand. Not sure if that is still the case. CA is great stuff for patching your self after a slice with a knife; I understand it is used in surgeries for some time now. No I have never used it for such but it is used. Excess tite bond is pretty tough too but nowhere as hard as CA glue. I think there’s more flexibility in traditional glue so if it came down to one or the other I would stick with titebond

CA is also a nasty allergen. That is people can become allergic to the stuff. My understanding it can be quite the irritating annoyance. I too first used CA for RC airplanes starting in the 70's. I have long since quit using it as I became smarter about adhesives and woods.

A CA joint is brittle and will eventually fail. Fit of the joint makes a difference as to when it fails. One of the Aliphatics (Elmers, Titebond, etc) is much better as they're flexible. I prefer Elmers Carpenters for my wood work.

Epoxy would be my choice to fix the stock in this thread. But it would also require more care and work. Something I doubt the OP would be interested in. The epoxy you want should take hours to set and have a working time of 45 min or more. A finishing resin possibly. A syringe should be used to flood the crack as best as possible. It should be very thin so it can soak deep into the wood prior to clamping. A cloth with thinner should be at hand to keep up with all the dribbles and runs. And adhesive syringes can be had for decent prices at most arts and crafts stores.

 

[Joemolf]

The SMR has my interest because of the sleek design, just got to read up some more on stuff like drilling the pins. Got a lot of experience reworking old rifles just not too much on ML rifles other than the TC brand.

Jim provides a drill guide for locating the hole in the barrel tabs. It prevents you from wallowing out the predrilled hole in the stock; 1/16 inches. You slip the guide into the 1/16 hole in the stock and then a #55 drill is used to drill the index hole in the barrel tabs. Once you drill all index holes you remove the barrel from the stock and drill them to final size 1/16 inch then slot the tabs. Just another great idea by Kimbler to get you through the build with minimal skills. You get the drill guide a 1/16 bit and I believe a #55. Thank you Master Jim Kimbler!

 

[Appowner]

I wasn’t going to say anything, but… so many guys tried to help you and you know better. This us all on you. God help you if you get it done , next you’ll be deciding that smokeless powder would be better to shoot in this gun, as everyone rise is just wrong.

Model airplanes might be better for you.

No! Please! We have enough fools in the airplane hobby already.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Come on, let's go ! Almost to 30 pages!

 

[Joemolf]

CA is also a nasty allergen. That is people can become allergic to the stuff. My understanding it can be quite the irritating annoyance. I too first used CA for RC airplanes starting in the 70's. I have long since quit using it as I became smarter about adhesives and woods.

A CA joint is brittle and will eventually fail. Fit of the joint makes a difference as to when it fails. One of the Aliphatics (Elmers, Titebond, etc) is much better as they're flexible. I prefer Elmers Carpenters for my wood work.

Epoxy would be my choice to fix the stock in this thread. But it would also require more care and work. Something I doubt the OP would be interested in. The epoxy you want should take hours to set and have a working time of 45 min or more. A finishing resin possibly. A syringe should be used to flood the crack as best as possible. It should be very thin so it can soak deep into the wood prior to clamping. A cloth with thinner should be at hand to keep up with all the dribbles and runs. And adhesive syringes can be had for decent prices at most arts and crafts stores.

back in the day I found out oh too well about how nasty that stuff is when you use it for an extended period of time. Don’t breathe the vapor at all. I had what I thought was a severe head cold sinus after spending one evening on a Topflite kit i was building. I’m also wondering if by now they were able to reformulate it to limit the gas off and make it less brittle. Back in the early 80s there was none and though you could speed build time one hard landing usually left you with a lot of failed joints. Very very brittle. I think there’s a place for it especially if it’s been reformulated to be less brittle but Titebond or equivalent for me is the preferred wood glue.

 

[wiscoaster]

The blueing looks great and the nice thing I found about using a cold blue it can easily be touched up down the road should it need and it looks good. What did you use to blue the barrel Brownells Jax or other? I’ve used Brownells but am going to try the Jax black which seems to be very popular. Keep the good luck going.

Jax. Very easy, very fast.

 

[Joemolf]

Interesting post....just wondering if Jim Kibler is thinking...." How much easier can I make these kits...? ". JMPO

He can make them easier but there will always be those who will mess them up. I think he has gone to far. That’s my opinion I was surprised to hear that the Wood Runner comes with the buttplate installed. I also prefer to install the rifle tabs myself. Regardless you better believe I would purchase a Wood Runner specifically the wood runner he is offering now with relief carving. I’m sure most modern rifles like my Browning BLR checkering is machine applied and it does bother me in the least. Same would apply to relief carving being it brings so much to a rifle. I just don’t have the skills to do that and once done it is what it is. I’m also 65 and though I’m going to attempt it on some scrap I’m probably years away from being able to apply it to a rifle

 

[Joemolf]

Just cut off the smashed part. I never use those goofy guides anyway.

That’s because you have skills. I’ve used them and I also just use a drill press when there are no index holes. They do help those with less skills. I myself don’t like 1/16 pins but they seem to be the norm today. I prefer a 5/64 or 3/32 pin.

 

[Joemolf]

In over 100 rifles, I’ve never used a drill guide.

You probably drilled the stock and the tube all at the same time. Jim provided this to keep people from canting the drill and messing up the exit side. Otherwise it serves no purpose.

 

[Joemolf]

That being said, I do have plenty of experience with dove tailed sights on other guns, and in comparison to them, this one is pretty rough. If that's to be expected wrt to a muzzle loader, OK, I accept it, and will deal with it that way in the future.

From another POV - instead of just accepting "as-is", maybe this is one small detail by which making an improvement could make the already best in class even better?

Maybe you should have bought one in the white from your last comment it sounds like you want a snap together kit.

 

[Appowner]

I would say the OP has probably bit off more than he can chew. I'm starting my first build and can't even imagine doing some of the things he's done. In spite of his braggings. He needs to have an honest heart to heart with himself and move on to something else.

And I wonder too how many more guns he has out in open display where anyone could grab or even steel one? Not safe there! Not safe!

 

[sturmkatze]

You're right, 'cuz been there, done that.
One or the other of these two gentlemen is me:
View attachment 241716
... circa 1985 or so.

Then what happened?