inquiry

[Spokes]

Okay, I bought a TC Hawken rifle three years ago and I haven't fired it yet. I have other long guns that I own that I haven't fired either so It's not just a BP thing, it 's a time thing. I have acquired all of the items I need for shooting BP including the CO2 discharging kit in case I screw up and from what I read here, I will.

So, at the end of the month I will be on vacation and I want to go to the range and (finally) fire the TC.

My question is, will cleaning with solvent do an adequate job? I have a problem mixing water with steel. It just doesn't seem right. The guy I bought the rifle from said to use hot water but will solvent by itself do the job?

Thanks for your help.

 

[poordevil]

You can use a Black Powder solvent, but water is the way to do it and will not harn the gun. Use hot water. Oil it when you are done. I have done this for over 30 years and never any rust. :thumbsup:

P

 

[lonehunter]

Water with dish soap, dry good, and oil. You are good to go. :v

 

[bioprof]

I started out with the same attitude as you. I bought the black powder solvents and used them. Once I tried cold water and soap, I found them to be far superior. It turns a 15 minute job into a 5 minute job when you use soap and water.

Don't use hot water though. Hot water can cause flash rusting. You might think hot water would be better because it would dry faster, but it can cause problems.

 

[Dave K]

Hexk, I don't even use soap. I just use regular water from the tap. When I started I used all the elixers known to the muzzleloading world. Then I just tried water, I can't see any difference and water is available everywhere.

 

[smokehouseman]

I agree 1,000% with bioprof, follow his advice and you won't go wrong. :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you use soap and water to clean-- I can't think of any reason why not----- PLEASE, let the barrel sit with it full of soap and water for at least 1/2 hour, to let the soap do its thing. Don't RUSH cleaning.

The Black Powder is coated in Graphite to protect it from Static Electricity, to make it safer to handle. Graphite is a form of carbon. When the gun is fired, the residue consists of Carbon, nitrate salts, and Sulfur salts. Water dissolves the nitrate and sulfur salts. The Soap is needed to remove the carbon deposits, and GRAPHITE from the pores of the steel barrel. Let it have the time it needs to work.

Heating the water does NOT HELP it dissolve the salts. It doesn't do anything, except make you feel better! :shocked2: :youcrazy: Water is mother nature's " solvent". Heating the water doesn't make the soap work faster. Anyone who has had to wash in cold water knows that the soap is an alkalide, and chemical neutralizes acids. It also performs the chore of Emulsifying dirt, and carbon in particular, that is, soap helps the water hold the dirt in suspension, so that it is poured out with the water.

The best thing you can do to " Speed " cleaning of your gun is to use a bore Brush to scrape the crud out of the corners of the grooves that for the rifling.

I do this with soap and water in the barrel, and a damp cleaning patch on the brush. The bristles will poke through the cotton patch, to scrub the corners, and the cotton will provide a "vehicle" to which the crud will attach, and be pulled out of the barrel.

A bore brush is rarely need to clean a round bottom rifled gun barrel, as those barrels have no CORNERS. Similarly, a bore brush is rarely need to clean a chrome lined bore.

I share these latter tips simply to stress WHY I am recommending the use of a bore brush in your T/C, which doesn't have either round bottom rifling, or a chrome plated bore.

If you rush the cleaning job, you will continue to have gray colored patches come out the barrel even as you oil it for storage. The Gray color will be the graphite, that has to be pulled from the pores by allowing soap the time to get it done.

Can you just leave the graphite there? Yes, but you won't know if its ONLY graphite, or contains salts that will corrode the bore, until its too late. By using a good oil, or lube, you coat the barrel on the inside, which inhibits AIR from contacting the steel bore. Without air present, rust cannot occur. Corrosion from acids and salts still can, but not rust.

 

[renovato]

Black powder residue is water soluble, so the smokeless powder solvents won't work on it. They make black powder solvents, but the active ingredient is basically-water! The black powder solvents are great at cutting fouling quickly, but there's one thing that they don't do. They don't rinse away the corrosive salts from firing.

Luckily black powder residue is very easy to clean out, so there's no need for solvent of any kind. The easiest way is to mix up a little dish soap in some water and get to work. This also rinses out the salts. I used to use hot water, but had problems with flash rusting. I have since went to skin temperature water and have no more flash rust. I dry the metal well, then follow with a splash of 91% rubbing alcohol (the 70% stuff has too much water in it). This evaporates out any moisture I might have missed. Follow up with whatever rust preventing oil you prefer and you're done. I use CorrosionX mostly because it's by far the most effective rust preventer I've ever found.

All in all, cleaning a muzzleloader is a cinch. I can clean one in a matter of minutes. Faster than any centerfire or rimfire I own. Don't sweat the water. Done right, it won't hurt your metal a bit. It's the solvent that might!

 

[bwhoffman]

Let me add some perspective here...
I have a goodly handful of BP guns, my favorite is a pistol worth quite a bit. I shoot it and get it dirty. It, along with all my others, get the barrels removed from the stocks and placed in the big wash sink on the back porch, 100% completely submerged in water for about 30 minutes. I run brushes and jags and patches thru them several times and patch pump water in and out the nipple a bunch.
I dry them, run several dry patches down the bores, an alcohol patch as well and then I spray wd40 down them and work that oraound with a patch as well.

No rust. Ever.

 

[hanshi]

All the advice above is on target even with some individual variations mentioned. Basically: water & soap, dry, oil. That's it!

I'll add my own usual method, not that I can add to what's already been posted. I use either cold or warm water (not hot) & soap. I plug the vent/nipple (after using a scraper which is optional) and pour soapy water down the bore & let it set for a few. I pour the dirty water out and commence to wiping with alternating wet & dry patches till they come out clean. Occasionally I'll also use a brush. I make sure the bore is thoroughly dry and squirt WD40 down the bore, swab it in good & apply another oil with a patch. I always check a couple days later to make sure all is well.

I've never been able to clean a muzzleloader in 5 minutes or even in 15 minutes but then I'm OCD and tend to get caught up in minutia. It's really on par with cleaning a modern rifle. Just use a muzzle guard on your cleaning rod.

 

[longcruise]

Don't use hot water though. Hot water can cause flash rusting. You might think hot water would be better because it would dry faster, but it can cause problems.

The above from bioprof is a very important point. Even the TC manual (my old one) says to use hot water. I used to clean with boiling hot water to start and, yes, it is very effective at removing powder residue and the hot barrel drys out bone dry very quickly. But once it's dry if you run a patch in and out you will see the red. :shocked2:

Use tap warm water that you can put your hand into without feeling uncomfortable.

 

[fyrfyter43]

Soap and water, just like everybody else says.

But if you really have a thing against using water, alot of guys use windshield washer fluid. I've never used it, so I don't have any advice, but a search of the forum should provide you with some info.

BTW...where in NJ? I'll be off the next few weeks if you want someone to shoot with. I usually shoot at the rifle range at the Clinton WMA.

 

[Zonie]

steve k.
Welcome to the Forum.

Any and All of the gun cleaning solvents that are made for modern smokeless powder will not dissolve the salts left after firing a muzzleloader.

I'm afraid you will just have to get over your fear of mixing water and steel. In the case of a muzzleloader it is the best way.
Adding a little dish washing soap will also cut thru the patch lubricant that is left in the bore.
This allows the water to totally dissolve the rest of the fouling.

As was mentioned, there are a number of Black Powder Solvents made specifically for cleaning muzzleloaders but because water works best, these "solvents" are mainly water.

One Black Powder solvent I DO NOT recommend is "TC Number 13 Bore Cleaner".
This stuff works too well. It cleans off every bit of the fouling and it also removes ALL of any lubricant that is on the steel bore.
This has resulted in Instant Rust within seconds of applying it to the bores of my guns.
So rapid is this rusting that I intentionally ran a dry patch thru the bore of one of my unfired C&B revolvers to make sure it was not rusted. I then "cleaned" it with No 13 and before I could even run a drying patch thru the bore rust had started to form.

Stick to soap and water and immediately dry the bore and then wipe it with a good protectorate like Birchwood Casey Barricade and you will have no problems.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

soap isn't so muc necessary to clean the powder residue, so much as it is acts as a wetting agent to help soak into those stubborn hard patches of fouling. Water has a certain vicosity and sometimes can surfaces are hard to make wet, because the water beads off. Soap helps prevent the water from beading off.

 

[MSW]

fwiw, i agree. just warm soapy water, let the water take its time. much is made of it being hot, and, depending on your local conditions, you may or may not suffer flash rust, so go with warm. i put a toothpick in the touch hole of my T/C flinter, fill the barrel and let it stand for about fifteen or twenty minutes. then i put it in a plastic coffee can and pull the toothpick out and let the funk drain into the can. then i switch to a fresh can of warm soapy water and run a patch up and down the barrel. this will pull the fresh water up into the barrel and clear out the fouling the soak might have missed. then i run a clean oiled patch down the barrel and it comes out clean and i'm done.

you most probably have a patent breech, so you may want to get a smaller (i use a .22 cal) cleaning brush down in there every so often. many folks claim the the patent breech is more trouble than it's worth, but mine has worked OK for me, and i confess that i really don't give it a bunch of extra special care- just keep it clean.

good luck, welcome to the muzzle loading world, and

make good smoke!

 

[ohio ramrod]

water is prefered by most for the simple reason you can use a lot of it cheaply ( like free ). Black powder residue is easily removed by water (with or with out soap ) The main problems with solvents ( most of which are alcohol such as windshield fluid ) is that it takes quite a bit to remove all of the fouling. Any solvent (even water ) will losen the fouling but you need to "flush " it out of the barrel once you have it loose and a large volume of water will do this cheaply.

 

[jmac]

Not to high-jack this topic...but. Two questions, I have heard about "seasoning" a ML's bore, much like seasoning an iron skillet. Is anyone else familer with this, and if so wouldn't soap break down the seasoning of the metal? Second what oils do you all use. I started using sperm oil 40 plus years ago but today use a non-petrolium based product such as bore butter. Is there a good substitute for sperm oil?

John

 

[mykeal]

Rifle barrels are not iron and are not used for frying chicken or bacon. 'Seasoning' rifle bores is a myth, started by an erroneous Thompson Center manual years ago that was corrected and is no longer being used.

There are many good rust preventatives ('oils') on the market. I'm currently using Ballistol and am quite satisfied. It's essentially a mineral oil type product.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you must, Jojoba oil is THE substitute for Sperm Whale Oil. It is made from extracting oil from the Jojoba plant, which grows in high desert plains. You can find it sold by many suppliers here, and on the internet.

Don't SEASON a barrel. Its NOT a frying pan. And its NOT IRON! McKeal has given you the short "Scoop" on this subject. Believe him.

As to lubes, using either a vegetable oil- the cheap store brand you use in your kitchen for frying is just fine, or OLIVE OIL, if you need a bit of attitude with your lube, or Ballistol, ( Mineral oil with an attitude) if you insist on believing that products made in Europe are superior to those made in America, are all good choices.

The Petroleum based oils require a higher temperature to burn up well, and those temperatures are rarely achieved in MLers. That leaves behind Tars, and congealed OILs, that stick to everything, block flash channels, and simply raise hobb with shooting a MLER. Use vegetable oils instead. :thumbsup:

 

[jmac]

Paul,
Those are the reasons I don't use a petroleum based product annd hav'nt for years. One question: Virgin or Extra Virgin?? :haha:

J-Mac