Incredible fouling accumulation

[StewartLeach]

Have been out three times now with new-to-me 54 cal flinter. Rifle was built circa 1981. After a few shots with 50 grains 2f Goex the fouling builds up to a degree that it becomes hard to impossible to seat the patched ball against the charge. Rifle groups well for first few shots, then all over- and off- the paper at 100 yards. A damp patch brings up a lot of "sludge", including a good bit of unburnt powder. Actually, it takes three damp patches to get enough gunk out to get the patch down to the breech plug. When cleaning at home it takes several hot water and dish soap soakings and scrubbings to get to a point where the patch comes out sorta clean.

Any thoughts on what could be causing this phenomenon? One thing I have noticed is that the vent looks quite large. Could an oversize vent contribute to poor combustion of the charge?

Any suggested cures or procedures?

 

[SgtErv]

You could try 3F. I get quite a crud ring from 2F in my .50 cal. Several guys in the forum here use 3F for their larger calibers

You might consider changing your lube as well, or attempting to use less. When it gets fouled I'm tempted to use more Mink Oil Tallow to help with ease of loading but it only aggravates the fouling. Sounds as if too much lube might be the problem.

Best of luck, and let us know. These threads are helpful!

 

[Larry Akers]

Atmospheric conditions have a big effect on how much fouling is created. You may need to wipe after every shot. You could also try 3F which will burn cleaner. IMO the smaller the touchhole, commensurate with reliable ignition, the better. The increase in retained pressure and attendant increase in temperature result in more complete combustion and less fouling. I may be all wet with this but it holds with all my guns. I use .059" dia. touchholes.

 

[Black Hand]

Have been out three times now with new-to-me 54 cal flinter. Rifle was built circa 1981. After a few shots with 50 grains 2f Goex the fouling builds up to a degree that it becomes hard to impossible to seat the patched ball against the charge. Rifle groups well for first few shots, then all over- and off- the paper at 100 yards. A damp patch brings up a lot of "sludge", including a good bit of unburnt powder. Actually, it takes three damp patches to get enough gunk out to get the patch down to the breech plug. When cleaning at home it takes several hot water and dish soap soakings and scrubbings to get to a point where the patch comes out sorta clean.

Any thoughts on what could be causing this phenomenon? One thing I have noticed is that the vent looks quite large. Could an oversize vent contribute to poor combustion of the charge?

Any suggested cures or procedures?

Switch to FFFg, up your powder charge to 70-80 grains, change your patching (thicker) and change your lube - These would be my suggestions. 50gr of FFg appears (to me) a little low in a 54, while your lube/charge/ball/patching combination can affect the amount of fouling. Atmospheric conditions do play a role, but aren't under your control.

 

[Rifleman1776]

There are those here who believe they will get a special spot in heaven for not swabbing between every shot. I'm going to hell. I believe in swabbing between every shot. Suggest you do the same. Hell can wait. :wink: Upping the charge will increase pressure and give a more complete burn. Wat others suggested is good advice.

 

[coloradoclyde]

So far...I like everyone's answers.... :thumbsup:

Only thing I will add is....is the powder also from the 1980's?

I do recall goex having some "less than desirable powder at certain time's, "back in the day".

All in all....You experience is not uncommon.

 

[Black Hand]

There are those here who believe they will get a special spot in heaven for not swabbing between every shot. I'm going to hell. I believe in swabbing between every shot. Suggest you do the same. Hell can wait. :wink:

There is a major difference between needing and choosing to swab. With a good combination, the need to swab after every shot is eliminated. I can get 15-20 (or more) shots before my barrel gets "sticky", and then only under hot/dry conditions.

 

[coloradoclyde]

There are those here who believe they will get a special spot in heaven for not swabbing between every shot. I'm going to hell. I believe in swabbing between every shot. Suggest you do the same. Hell can wait. :wink:

There is a major difference between needing and choosing to swab. With a good combination, the need to swab after every shot is eliminated. I can get 15-20 (or more) shots before my barrel gets "sticky", and then only under hot/dry conditions.

Yep!... a good combination can greatly reduce the need to swab...
But!....Swabbing allows you to use whatever combination one desires.... :wink:

 

[StewartLeach]

Many thanks for the advice.

Conditions here in The People's Republic of Boulder of late have been ideal for formation of hard crud- temps 70-80 degrees, humidity at this writing is only 11 per cent.

My range lube is the typical "Moose Milk"- 2 oz water soluble oil, 2 oz Murphy's, enough distilled water to make a quart or liter. Have been using this mixture for about a decade with no problems in any of six rifles 40 to 58 caliber.

Tried three different patchings- bottomweights twill (thinnest), Wally Mart ticking, and #40 pocket drill (thickest). Seemed to make no difference in gunk buildup. Pocket drill gave best accuracy for the first few shots.

Haven't tried a greasy lube. Have a good supply of lamb tallow & beeswax lube, made up for the 1861 Harpers Ferry.

So, one at a time, I will try heavier charges, switching to 3f, and finally greasy patches. Will order out a new vent, then increase size in steps using number gauge drills.

 

[excess650]

I prefer as small of vent as is reliable, but a larger vent might benefit from a heavier powder charge.

11% is low humidy, so fouling won't stay moist for long. That said, I prefer fffg Goex whether it be my .45, .50, .54, .58, or .62. I get a cleaner burn and better accuracy with each caliber.

 

[hanshi]

The best way to eliminate the fouling is to have a tight ball/patch combo. In my .50 with a .490" ball and a .025" denim patch, there's no buildup of fouling with each shot; only one shots worth of fouling is left in the bore. In my rifle this combo is quite capable of being seated with the wood, underbarrel rod. Each time a ball is seated it pushes the fouling down on top of the powder which blows it out the muzzle when the rifle is fired. And I use Hoppes #9 BP lube at the range but such a tight combination should also work with most grease lubes such as mink oil, which I use in the bush.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well the thicker patch will tend to shed the most amount of liquid lube when you jamb the patched ball onto the rifling. Like wringing a sponge. So, what I think you're getting is a slightly less that good burn on your 2Fg powder. Then when you pour your powder down the barrel for the next shot..., some of that gets hung up on the barrel interior wall. So when you ram down the next round, with an overly damp patch, it collects the crud from the barrel walls, creating a layer of damp spent powder residue coupled with damp unburnt powder, clinging to your patch. When you seat this on top of the remaining powder at your breech, you have a layer of stuff that isn't going to burn when you shoot which gets deposited inside the barrel. This process is repeating and you're building it up larger and larger for each shot.

Try just a slightly damp patch with saliva, then go try the other lubes, please. :wink:

LD

 

[mooman76]

I never have to swab when using spit patch no matter what the load. I can shoot all day.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I never have to swab when using spit patch no matter what the load. I can shoot all day.

You have good spit... :grin:

 

[mooman76]

I never have to swab when using spit patch no matter what the load. I can shoot all day.

You have good spit... :grin:

Maybe I should market it. :rotf:

 

[Cowboy]

I never have to swab when using spit patch no matter what the load. I can shoot all day.

I agree 100% whole heartedly! I think I've tried every commercial lube one could think of to include home spun lubes as well.

Saw Jethro using just plain ol spit patches. Never occurred to me to even try that. Spit patches just seemed to easy. Well, I tried it one day when we were out shooting and BINGO! Worked great and never had a need to swab all day for the most part. Didn't have ignition problems nor residue build up either. If yer mouth gets dry, take a swig of water and keep shooting! Never turned back to lubes. It's just good ol spit patches for me! :wink:

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[coloradoclyde]

I never have to swab when using spit patch no matter what the load. I can shoot all day.

You have good spit... :grin:

Maybe I should market it. :rotf:

Yes!...but what would you call it....Lunar lube? or Moon juice?...:rotf:

 

[tenngun]

There are those here who believe they will get a special spot in heaven for not swabbing between every shot. I'm going to hell. I believe in swabbing between every shot. Suggest you do the same. Hell can wait. :wink:

There is a major difference between needing and choosing to swab. With a good combination, the need to swab after every shot is eliminated. I can get 15-20 (or more) shots before my barrel gets "sticky", and then only under hot/dry conditions.

Yep!... a good combination can greatly reduce the need to swab...
But!....Swabbing allows you to use whatever combination one desires.... :wink:

I grew up in new mex and could often shoot 20 or 30 shots without swabbing. When I came to the Ozarks I dropped, five was too tight. I now swab tween shots. The humidity can affect, or so the air pressure,and temp ect. Its a very much what works where you live and best for you.
One thing I have seen, but was not handy for me, was to put your jag on your rod, put a damp patch on it and push down when your ramming home the ball. This might be something you can try. Only make sure that your swab patch isn't too tight you don't want it stuck on top of a hot load. :nono:

 

[coloradoclyde]

It might not be an acceptable practice...but I have swabbed after loading....but it doesn't prevent the crud ring....

 

[Darkhorse]

I had a problem like this when I started shooting a newly built (my build) .40 with a Rice barrel. I started out with 2f and couldn't get past 2 shots.
I changed to 3f and Lehigh Valley Patch lube. That made all the difference.
The LeHigh Valley is the absolute best lube for shooting I've used since I started shooting black powder in 1976. I would not be without it. And for tough cleaning use LHV and it just busts right through hard fouling.
However it's not a good lube for hunting as it will dry and leave you with a dry patch that can catch on fire.