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If you can't get real Black Powder

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wb78963

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OK my point has been missed. No I did not say APP is the greatest thing since pull tab cans, but is better that the "P" stuff or 111 more than the mark of the devil the by a country mile.
Yes certainly you need to clean, just like black gunpowder. I never said it is not corrosive the residue is about like black gunpowder perhaps a little less and it will damage the bore but is less corrosive than "P" stuff IF LEFT UNCLEANED.
BUT it is a flammable solid like (if I may say so) the fad nitro stuff we don't talk about here and may be available in some of the benighted areas of the country where Black Gunpowder, which is an an EXPLOSIVE,is not allowed.
In summery it affords a product you may use to keep shooting where black gunpowder is not allowed.
Caps will fall off ramrods will break, flints not spark things will happen, but we keep on shooting.
Yes Carbon 6 If it was easy we might as well be using suppository guns.
But we don't
30
Bunk
 

Carbon 6

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Check the date on those cans of APP, see how long it's been sitting on the shelf.
 

N.Y. Yankee

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I too have been looking for a good black powder substitute simply because black is so difficult to find here in small quantities. I am not a member of a BP club as of yet and so I have no one close by to share an order with. I recently tried Triple Seven 3f in my .54 Lyman GPR. A local Runnings store carries T7 and it is affordable. Function testing went OK with only a couple very short hangfires out of 20 shots. I will be testing loads for accuracy this weekend. I was able to load several shots in a string and really only swabbed because I "felt" that it was time. This was with Hotshot nipples and Remington #11 caps.
 

FishDFly

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I'd like to go there soon, unfortunately I'm like 2 hours away. Nice place tho.

Two (2) hours.

Let's see, give up a couple of burgers and fries, cost savings.

Ditch a six (6) pack of beer, cost savings.

Load up the wife in the car.

Make a road trip to get powder and visit Dixon's.

Ask wife where she would like to stop on the way home.

Have a nice day with her.

You have powder, went to Dixon's , wife is out of the house , she is happy.

Seems simple to me. Stop being a cheap scape.
 

mooman76

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I too have been looking for a good black powder substitute simply because black is so difficult to find here in small quantities. I am not a member of a BP club as of yet and so I have no one close by to share an order with. I recently tried Triple Seven 3f in my .54 Lyman GPR. A local Runnings store carries T7 and it is affordable. Function testing went OK with only a couple very short hangfires out of 20 shots. I will be testing loads for accuracy this weekend. I was able to load several shots in a string and really only swabbed because I "felt" that it was time. This was with Hotshot nipples and Remington #11 caps.
Try and find someone else in your area and you can get together order and split the order.
 
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Two (2) hours.

Let's see, give up a couple of burgers and fries, cost savings.

Ditch a six (6) pack of beer, cost savings.

Load up the wife in the car.

Make a road trip to get powder and visit Dixon's.

Ask wife where she would like to stop on the way home.

Have a nice day with her.

You have powder, went to Dixon's , wife is out of the house , she is happy.

Seems simple to me. Stop being a cheap scape.
Wish it was that easy, I'm out of work and no car. And not married.
 

Okie Hog

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Yep, i liked all the APP manufactured powders: APP, Jim Shockey's Gold, Pinnacle and Black MZ. Sad thing is they are all gone. The APP plant at Whitewater, CO was destroyed by fire and explosion and will not be rebuilt.

Managed to stash away 10 cans of Black MZ, that will hold me for awhile. Also have some Pyrodex P and Triple Seven.

i wouldn't drive five miles for black powder.
 

JCKelly

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www.grafs.com will ship both GOEX, which you all seem to like, and Swiss, which I prefer, on order. Check out their website.
Other sources available as noted above.
 

firestick

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" i wouldn't drive five miles for black powder. "
I think that is a bit harsh. I definitely would love me some FFg but it is more like 200+ miles to the nearest DEALER. I have 6# of Black MZ to use and will be saving to order some real BP. Shooting a .50 and a .58 eats up the powder quite a bit faster than the old .45 capper I had.
 

tomm9903

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Graf and Sons is where I get my BP from, reasonable shipping and haz mat fees. I just recently got 10lbs of ffg from them and have an order of both fffg and ffffg on the way. 😊
 

Howard Pippin

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I too have been looking for a good black powder substitute simply because black is so difficult to find here in small quantities. I am not a member of a BP club as of yet and so I have no one close by to share an order with. I recently tried Triple Seven 3f in my .54 Lyman GPR. A local Runnings store carries T7 and it is affordable. Function testing went OK with only a couple very short hangfires out of 20 shots. I will be testing loads for accuracy this weekend. I was able to load several shots in a string and really only swabbed because I "felt" that it was time. This was with Hotshot nipples and Remington #11 caps.
I took a few precautions before I went to 777 in my new percussion 50. I don't overcharge, 55 to 60 grains is Max, gets anything that I'm after. I bored out a new stainless nipple to .031 and I have no hang fires. Some of The holy black shooters are going to complain regardless, because of our disloyalty but I can buy it readily in small quantities and it's available in my area where BP isn't. I just heard my BP dealer that lives 440 miles away has closed up shop. Just remember to clean the gun when you are done, completely and then lightly lubricate the barrel inside and out like you would do with any fine rifle And you'll be just fine.
Squint
 

wb78963

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Well the using APP instead of Pyrodex option is moot
The APP plant was destroyed in an explosion, which is not unusual for a powder plants, so there will be no more APP powders for the foreseeable future, and perhaps ever.
However it has been a fun discussion and a meeting of minds.
Now I am back to real Black Gunpowder.
There is no argument there...right?
Respectfully,
Bunk
 

brewer12345

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I like Black MZ. Killed my first muzzleloader deer with it. My only issues are that it is a good deal less energetic than real black and it is gone for good. So once I use it up, that is it. All that said, my rifles seem to like it just fine and I fine it to be a lot less filthy than real black. When it is gone I will just use real black as long as I can continue buying it.
 

arcticap

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I prefer APP 3F for revolver shooting.
It likes heavy compression using a loading press and over powder cards, which results in extra velocity and a lot of smoke.
I still have some of the original Clean Shot 3F powder and it hasn't degraded.
I've always immediately closed the lid and measured hunting charges at home.

And APP 3F can also be used as a main charge in at least some flintlocks.
There's a youtube video showing an Indian flintlock being fired using BP in the pan and only APP 3F in the barrel.
There wasn't any booster charge mixed in with the main charge and he reported taking at least 15 consecutive shots without any misfires.
That doesn't mean that it will work in every flintlock but it worked in his Brown Bess.



The caption states: "Trying out some new powder, touted as a clean burning black powder substitute. I've read a huge difference of opinion about this powder, and several people flatly state that it will NOT work in a flintlock. Well, here you have it. I fired 10 shots of varying powder charge, all lead ball, and not one misfire or failure to discharge. I think the FFFg is the right choice, the grain size is bigger than regular black powder, so having the FFFg probably helped with ignition here. Also, prime the pan with NORMAL black powder, it's not a big deal and doesn't make a big mess. Clean up was a breeze and nearly zero fouling. Very happy."


The caption states: "This is I think the 8th shot out of the musket without swabbing, cleaning or lube of any kind. After 15 shots the barrel still looked 'brand new', this powder seems consistent and reliable, not a single misfire that day. ....also at 20 paces we hit the crock-pot every time.. .71 lead ball with paper cartridge wadding."
 
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