If you can't get real Black Powder

[Half-Cocked]

Lol bp pyrodex or trip 7. The ol debate.

I use t7 with my inline. 0 issues. I also use bp in that inline.

My experience is that the t7 has more of a punch compared to bp with the same load by volume.

T7 is lighter and you buy it by the pound and measure for use by volume. Also an advantage to black powder.

However when it comes to my 1851 Colt Navy that is brass... Nothing but genuine goex black powder. And it's because it has less of a punch.

However when I have to load up just under a hundred grains of powder for a single shot in my inline the triple seven makes sense.

just my two cents everybody has their own preference and other people are using different types of rifles that may react differently to the triple seven I personally have never had an issue.

 

[SPQR70AD]

Sounds like you have never used Blackhorn 209, correct? Hope not. OP as I understood it was asking about performance, not economics. Me, I tried Blackhorn 209 in a couple of side lock percussion guns. Found I needed a 209 primer adapter for consistent ignition and performance, but BH 209 kicked butt as far as consistency and velocity, and left virtuality no residue. Still found adapters to be a PIA. In plunger style inlines it didn’t work very well. In closed breech guns with 209 primer ignition it was hard to beat, but not my thing. I’ve burned a few pounds just experimenting. Please don’t tell me you are a keyboard jockey basing opinion on what you researched on the internet, never having used BH209?

you can get a musket cap nipple for many sidelocks. I have one. would a musket cap spark off 209 powder?

 

[mooman76]

I was thinking maybe mag primers?

 

[Carbon 6]

Sounds like you have never used Blackhorn 209, correct? Hope not. OP as I understood it was asking about performance, not economics. Me, I tried Blackhorn 209 in a couple of side lock percussion guns. Found I needed a 209 primer adapter for consistent ignition and performance, but BH 209 kicked butt as far as consistency and velocity, and left virtuality no residue. Still found adapters to be a PIA. In plunger style inlines it didn’t work very well. In closed breech guns with 209 primer ignition it was hard to beat, but not my thing. I’ve burned a few pounds just experimenting. Please don’t tell me you are a keyboard jockey basing opinion on what you researched on the internet, never having used BH209?

Blackhorn 209 is the only one I haven't tried an won't because of the price and the 209 issue. I'm a traditional shooter. Economics is an overruling factor for me. The gain in performance is not enough to justify the price for me. I no longer shoot competition, but Pyrodex and Black powder gave me all the wins a man could ever ask for, and continue to give me endless headshots. Oh, and I actually like residue, I enjoy swabbing between shots, it's the joy of muzzleloading. When the day comes that that price comes down or other powders get as expensive or someone gifts me a pound, then I will try it. Probably
in cartridges though, I'm not going down the 209 road unless they quit making caps, and I'm also a flintlock shooter..

Please don’t tell me you are a keyboard jockey basing opinion on what you researched on the internet, never having used BH209?

Sorry to disappoint you, I'm just more practical, sensible with my money and less susceptible to marketing. To date, no Muzzleloading propellant has satisfied me as much as good old black powder has.
No, My opinions are based firmly on my lifelong experience.
I see no point in paying twice the price to learn what I already know and has been confirmed by everyone who has tried it.

 

[Drewsgunworks]

The problem is the black powder substitutes dont work in flintlocks if they did id use them

 

[Cowboy]

Can only comment from my own personal experiences my friends.

Small background glimpse, so please bare with me if you will?

Had a military father who was fascinated by all types of firearms. Of course me being his son, I too was brought up with the same passion.

Dad stressed the importance of thorough cleaning after use. His standards were extremely high. Taught me the same at a very young age. My military background only mirrored my fathers high standards.

When I first got into muzzleloading it was with caplock rifles like so many here. Used Pyrodex and later on T7. Didn’t have issues with corrosion or rust. Attribute that to the fact that I completely cleaned and inspected every inch of that firearm before putting it away. Didn’t wait until I felt like cleaning after coming home from shooting. Cleaning was and is a part of the shooting experience. Both substitute powder’s served me well during those early days of muzzleloading.

Now I shoot strictly black powder. My introduction to flintlock brought about the change over. I shoot BP in both caplock and flint now days. I will add that I do have the advantage of having the ability to get it from multiple sources close by.

Lastly, I wouldn’t turn my nose up on using substitute powder’s if that was all that was available? What’s easier for some is not so easy for others.

Shoot and thoroughly clean as soon as possible afterwards my friends.

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[SDSmlf]

you can get a musket cap nipple for many sidelocks. I have one. would a musket cap spark off 209 powder?

It was just inconsistent unless I used the 209 adapter. And found using it a PIA, too many little components to drop and lose. At side lock hunting ranges, say 100 yards, found no performance advantage. It was easier to clean up afterwards, but missed the smoke. It was just something to try.

 

[Newtire]

Sticker shock almost killed me.
I just priced it at Cabela's and it's $49.99 a can
https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/blackhorn-209-high-performance-muzzleloading-powder

I bought it @9.99 a pound at Sportsmans Warehouse until they sold out. Black MZ-too bad can't get it anymore.

 

[Newtire]

Have you tried Blk MZ with wads or conicals and PRB? I think loading it compressed and with an over powder tight fighting wad improves its performance greatly. I can shoot pretty good groups with my .58 using it that BlackMZ.

Black MZ seems to like those heavier weight projectiles and

Have you tried Blk MZ with wads or conicals and PRB? I think loading it compressed and with an over powder tight fighting wad improves its performance greatly. I can shoot pretty good groups with my .58 using it that way.

Heavier projectiles seem to bring out the best in Black MZ.

 

[Crow-Feather]

Is there a store finder where black powder is sold, I've used pyrodex a lot in percussion guns and it works tho will rust quick if not cleaned. It is like my next gun to be a flintlock and don't think pyrodex will be very good. I guess I can order bp in N.Y. And they will ship but stores can't sell it.

I live a rocks throw away from PA and nj so maybe I can find some there, but shops by the border don't have any.

Powder Inc. 5 pound minimum

 

[Newtire]

Bunk, I have to respectfully disagree based on my experience with it.

While it did leave a "slippery" residue in the barrel that aided in loading, APP was the worst powder I ever used as it degraded very quickly causing severe loss of speed and power. I need to take the 2 pounds of it I still have sitting on the shelf and dump it.

Wow, dump it my way!

 

[Spikebuck]

Wow, dump it my way!

And to think that my wife and I spent two weeks in Idaho in August...a week of that near Hagerman...and someone was nearby that I could have unloaded my unused APP to! Oh well....maybe next time! Although, now that I see the new prices for this stuff, maybe I'd better get an auction going on ebay! I might be able to retire yet!

Someone commented on the power of T7. I used that extensively in my cappers and loved it. With a .530 RB and 90 grs of 2F T7 I was topping 1900 fps. Same load of 2F KiK black in the 1650 range. Since I've moved totally to Flintlocks and have no desire for a duplex load, it's all black for me now, but some subs can be very good powders in the right gun. Good thing it's America where we have many choices and the right to choose what we like and works for us.

 

[shdwlkr]

What real difference does it make what we use to keep shooting? If all you can get is XXX and it works in your muzzle loader(S), isn't it better to still be able to enjoy our sport than put our muzzle loader in the closet because we can't get real black. Me I will use what I can get that allows me to enjoy my muzzle loaders.

 

[Carbon 6]

What real difference does it make what we use to keep shooting? If all you can get is XXX and it works in your muzzle loader(S), isn't it better to still be able to enjoy our sport than put our muzzle loader in the closet because we can't get real black. Me I will use what I can get that allows me to enjoy my muzzle loaders.

Shooting real black powder is what allows me to enjoy muzzleloaders. Nothing else compares to it.
Nothing works like it in a flintlock
Nothing smells like it
Nothing smokes like it
Nothing is as simple as it
Nothing else lasts as long as it.
Nothing is as historical as it
Real Black powder is the only powder that gives you the genuine muzzleloading experience.
All other powders are just what they claim to be, "substitutes" not the real thing.

I'll shoot other powders, but none are as satisfying as the real thing.

 

[SmokepoleSam]

I agree shdwlkr, use what you can get to keep shooting. I'm lucky my club does a group order regularly so I use real black, otherwise I would use pyrodex.

 

[Sun City]

The only reason one shouldn't shoot blackpowder is because UPS/FEDEX go broke!!