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If you can't get real Black Powder

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wb78963

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Pyrodex or 777 is not the answer. I am a Black Gunpowder shootier from the get-go but...a friend put me on to American Pioneer Powder which has a different chemistry than the "P" stuff and is also bottled by Alliant as Black MZ or by APP as Jim Shockey's Gold all are the same thing.
The residue is about like Black powder but is consecutive not cumulative that is no matter how many time you shoot the gun is essentially one shot dirty and is compatible with petroleum lubes or use no lube at all as the residue acts an a bullet lube.
The only difference is it does not want to be compressed. The bullet/ball should just touch the powder.
It should work in percussion rifles but I doubrt it would work in a flintlock.
I have been using it in my cap and ball revolvers with very good success. Try it you may like it.
Respectfully Submitted
Bunk
 

Carbon 6

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It should work in percussion rifles but I doubrt it would work in a flintlock.
I have been using it in my cap and ball revolvers with very good success. Try it you may like it.
No!
They do not work as well as other powders in percussion or flintlock.
It works in a revolver because a revolver has an inline ignition, and that is what they were all designed for (inlines), they are all classified as smokeless powder because of their composition.
They degrade quickly, and the ascorbic acid in their composition is is even more damaging than the chlorates in pyrodex. it just takes longer to notice. Lord help you if you have brass and you don't clean right away or if you leave it in contact with the powder.
Most if not all of those powders have been taken off the market and I for one am grateful.
 

Spikebuck

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Bunk, I have to respectfully disagree based on my experience with it.

While it did leave a "slippery" residue in the barrel that aided in loading, APP was the worst powder I ever used as it degraded very quickly causing severe loss of speed and power. I need to take the 2 pounds of it I still have sitting on the shelf and dump it.
 

tallpine

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Muzzleloaders are a anomaly, two shooters can try the same powder, patch material, lube, you name it.. One will say it is absolutely worthless while the other thinks it's the greats thing since sliced bread. I have shot multiple cases of Black MZ through my side hammer and a pistol, the bores are just as bright and shiny as the day I built them.. I actually find it to be less corrosive than real black and easier to clean. It is cheap, readily available and as accurate as real black. The only thing I can find wrong with it is it wont shoot in my Flintlocks.. I would suggest anyone having problems getting real black.to try a can and make up your own mind.
 

firestick

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Black MZ has worked GREAT for me. Wish we had BP around here but Miles City is the nearest town and it is in another STATE! One day when I get enough cash together I will order some in quantity so it is affordable.
 
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Is there a store finder where black powder is sold, I've used pyrodex a lot in percussion guns and it works tho will rust quick if not cleaned. It is like my next gun to be a flintlock and don't think pyrodex will be very good. I guess I can order bp in N.Y. And they will ship but stores can't sell it.

I live a rocks throw away from PA and nj so maybe I can find some there, but shops by the border don't have any.
 

sussexmuzllodr

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Pyrodex or 777 is not the answer. I am a Black Gunpowder shootier from the get-go but...a friend put me on to American Pioneer Powder which has a different chemistry than the "P" stuff and is also bottled by Alliant as Black MZ or by APP as Jim Shockey's Gold all are the same thing.
The residue is about like Black powder but is consecutive not cumulative that is no matter how many time you shoot the gun is essentially one shot dirty and is compatible with petroleum lubes or use no lube at all as the residue acts an a bullet lube.
The only difference is it does not want to be compressed. The bullet/ball should just touch the powder.
It should work in percussion rifles but I doubrt it would work in a flintlock.
I have been using it in my cap and ball revolvers with very good success. Try it you may like it.
Respectfully Submitted
Bunk
WILL YOU STOP ALREADY!!!!!!!!!
 

wb78963

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This is just my thoughts and experience with APP type powders.. yes it does eat brass, but the brass cases I shoot today are washed and dried tomorrow. Sorry Mr. Moderator so 'nuf said about that here.
The same thing with my percussion revolvers they are cleaned the next day sometime in the afternoon of the day they were used and seem to be easier to clean that when used with Black Gunpowder.
I do not notice any corrosion or discoloration on my brass powder measure or brass dippers.
APP type powder residue seems to be consecutive not cumulative so the gun is almost only one shot dirty.
I am positive that APP residue is much less corrosive that the chlorate residue from "rust that burns" powders and is easier on firearms than that stuff.
A jar of BMZ was found in the back of a shelf and had formed into a lump. When broken up it was used with no seeming deterioration of quality. I suspect as long as it is kept dry it will last.
It may not have the lifespan of Black Gunpowder but it does not hang around that long anyway.
Anyway that is my experience Your Mileage May Vary.
Hold center
Bunk
 

firestick

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Is there a store finder where black powder is sold, I've used pyrodex a lot in percussion guns and it works tho will rust quick if not cleaned. It is like my next gun to be a flintlock and don't think pyrodex will be very good. I guess I can order bp in N.Y. And they will ship but stores can't sell it.

I live a rocks throw away from PA and nj so maybe I can find some there, but shops by the border don't have any.
Google where to buy GOEX Black Powder. It will have that info. The GOEX web sight has a store locator but it is not been activated or maybe it has been deactivated. There are other powders sold throughout the USA besides GOEX however.
 

wb78963

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No Sir I will not stop and what I am saying is not nonsense. It is my experience and I wish to tell others.
These forums are for learning from others experience and especially new to the game shooters.
My experience goes back to Curtis's and Harvey's powder and corrosive caps.
So get used to it because I do speak up..
Black MZ has worked GREAT for me. Wish we had BP around here but Miles City is the nearest town and it is in another STATE! One day when I get enough cash together I will order some in quantity so it is affordable.
Try Powder Inc. They are from Arkansas and have a good array of powders.
Respectfully
Bunk
 

Carbon 6

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This is just my thoughts and experience with APP type powders.. yes it does eat brass, but the brass cases I shoot today are washed and dried tomorrow. Sorry Mr. Moderator so 'nuf said about that here.
The big problem is people are lulled into a false sense of security regarding the corrosiveness of ascorbic acid powders, so they get sloppy and lazy thinking it isn't corrosive or as corrosive.
That's the trap.
Sure, if you clean right away like you do with real BP you'll likely have no issues except for the degradation.

Sometimes I wonder what goes though people's minds when all they want is a powder for their muzzleloader that doesn't corrode and doesn't foul, one that doesn't smoke and doesn't stink.
They want ramrods that won't break, caps that won't fall off, flint's that won't go dull, a stock that won't break and a finish that won't scratch.
I think what they really want is a modern gun, not a muzzleloader. :confused:
 
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I Tried the orange peeling made of powder when it was called clean shot in a white can,then it was promoted as Jim shockeys gold..lol.I used it in t.c hawkens...work ,,but never was consistant in grouping..BY THE TIME i got to the bottom of the bottle it was very fine and that was the problem..it wasnt a steady burn rate from the top of the can to the bottom...always lumped up also.stick TO REAL B.P.
 

mikeinpa

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Is there a store finder where black powder is sold, I've used pyrodex a lot in percussion guns and it works tho will rust quick if not cleaned. It is like my next gun to be a flintlock and don't think pyrodex will be very good. I guess I can order bp in N.Y. And they will ship but stores can't sell it.

I live a rocks throw away from PA and nj so maybe I can find some there, but shops by the border don't have any.
Dixons has powder and caps. I was there on Sat. They are limiting caps to two tins per person.
 

sussexmuzllodr

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No Sir I will not stop and what I am saying is not nonsense. It is my experience and I wish to tell others.
These forums are for learning from others experience and especially new to the game shooters.
My experience goes back to Curtis's and Harvey's powder and corrosive caps.
So get used to it because I do speak up..

Try Powder Inc. They are from Arkansas and have a good array of powders.
Respectfully
Bunk
Sir, I apologize to you. I did not mean to make you feel targeted. This Pyrodex vs, Blackpowder debate has been ground into a fine powder...ad nauseam....again accept my apology.
 
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