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If you can't get real Black Powder

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LST-1185

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Bunk you are correct. The American Pioneer plant did have an explosion in 2016 that did close them but they have since rebuilt and have started to produce powder again. Under their label purchase is available from the the following; bulletsbyscarett.com, lg-outdoors.com and at wholesalehunter.com. Shooters World Multi-Purpose Black (This Black Powder substitute is made in America for Shooters World by American Pioneer Powder) is available from grafs.com. Just for everyone's information.
 

arcticap

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Bunk you are correct. The American Pioneer plant did have an explosion in 2016 that did close them but they have since rebuilt and have started to produce powder again. Under their label purchase is available from the the following; bulletsbyscarett.com, lg-outdoors.com and at wholesalehunter.com. Shooters World Multi-Purpose Black (This Black Powder substitute is made in America for Shooters World by American Pioneer Powder) is available from grafs.com. Just for everyone's information.
Thanks for the info.
That's going to make a lot of people very happy!
 

TNGhost

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So I am confused about the status of Black MZ after reading this.

Is it back or is it no longer available?
 

wb78963

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correction that fire at the APP plant was in 2016 and APP is alive and well.
There was no thought on my part to suggest APP is a substitute for Black Gunpowder but a better option that Pyrodex in places where Black gunpowder is not available or allowed.
I still hold that opinion.
Respectfully
Bunk
 

Carbon 6

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Where is black powder not available ?

Why did APP change the name of their powder (again) ?
Why is it sold under another label and not their own ?
 

wb78963

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Hello Carbon 6
there are some cities or counties where, I am told, Black Gunpowder is illegal, but substitutes are legal.
American Pioneer Powder comes in three labels
American Pioneer Powder white label
Jim Shockey's Gold a "premium formulation" decorated label
Alliant Black MZ manufactured by APP for Alliant black label.
All three are the same basic formulation for marketing I suppose..
I have used both Jim Shokey's and Black MZ and see no difference in performance or appearance.
My opinion is APP in any label is a better option than Pyrodex but opinions are like belly buttons every one has one.
Your firearm so do as you please. My option is either FFFg GOEX or BMZ depending on how I feel.
Respectfully Submitted
Bunk
 

Carbon 6

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Your firearm so do as you please. My option is either FFFg GOEX or BMZ depending on how I feel.
Respectfully Submitted
Bunk
Since my guns are designed for black powder, I'll stick with black powder.

there are some cities or counties where, I am told, Black Gunpowder is illegal,
I would like to know where exactly these areas are, and what laws or ordinances govern them.
 

Old Hawkeye

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Since my guns are designed for black powder, I'll stick with black powder.



I would like to know where exactly these areas are, and what laws or ordinances govern them.
One place I know that Black Powder is not allowed, by a city ordinance, to be stored(in a retail store, warehouse, etc.) or sold is Omaha, Nebraska. Fire Marshall deemed it an explosive hazard after a gun store burned down about 30 years ago. The BP substitutes are on the shelf in plain site, but I guess they are "safe". The state of Nebrsaska does not prohibit it's sale, but there is only one other city, I know of, where it can be found over the counter. I live just across the border in Iowa & the local Bass Pro Shop stopped selling it over a year ago. The closest place I can buy it in Iowa is a 3 hr drive. The hassle of the rules & regs to deal with it are just not worth it for the retailer based on the amount of sales, which is the main reason it is hard to find. I just buy it in bulk & have it shipped to my door.
 

bgarrison54

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Where do u live in NY? I live in Allegany county, Wellsville, NY
Is there a store finder where black powder is sold, I've used pyrodex a lot in percussion guns and it works tho will rust quick if not cleaned. It is like my next gun to be a flintlock and don't think pyrodex will be very good. I guess I can order bp in N.Y. And they will ship but stores can't sell it.

I live a rocks throw away from PA and nj so maybe I can find some there, but shops by the border don't have any.
 

mooman76

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Alaska and Hawaii for two. While it is not illegal, it cannot be shipped by air so you simply can just order it like other places, so I'm you can find someone that sells it, you are stuck.
 

Carbon 6

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The big problem is people are lulled into a false sense of security regarding the corrosiveness of ascorbic acid powders, so they get sloppy and lazy thinking it isn't corrosive or as corrosive.
That's the trap.
Sure, if you clean right away like you do with real BP you'll likely have no issues except for the degradation.
It's also a problem when companies market such powders as "virtually non-corrosive."
That's like saying you are only a "little bit pregnant". In 9 months that "little bit" turns into a lot.
 

TNGhost

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Discontinued.

The new "shooters world" label makes me think it's repackaged old powder.
So why would it be repackaged old powder if APP was again producing it?

Hello Carbon 6
there are some cities or counties where, I am told, Black Gunpowder is illegal, but substitutes are legal.
American Pioneer Powder comes in three labels
American Pioneer Powder white label
Jim Shockey's Gold a "premium formulation" decorated label
Alliant Black MZ manufactured by APP for Alliant black label.
All three are the same basic formulation for marketing I suppose..
I have used both Jim Shokey's and Black MZ and see no difference in performance or appearance.
My opinion is APP in any label is a better option than Pyrodex but opinions are like belly buttons every one has one.
Your firearm so do as you please. My option is either FFFg GOEX or BMZ depending on how I feel.
Respectfully Submitted
Bunk
So, I m still confused on Black MZ. Is it back on the shelf?
 

Kansas Jake

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I just checked today and Midway USA has GOEX for around $18 a pound and the hazmat is less than $20. They also have free shipping on orders over $49. Three pounds would run about $28 a pound at that price. Still not a bad price at that.
 

Carbon 6

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So why would it be repackaged old powder if APP was again producing it?



So, I m still confused on Black MZ. Is it back on the shelf?
I don't think it ever left the shelf, therein being the problem. Even at the low ball price of $9.99 that sportsman's warehouse was selling it for I think oodles of it are still in stock somewhere. Cabela's was trying to sell it for $36.00 a pound, I wonder how many cases they didn't sell.
I think the only people who ever liked the stuff are the half dozen or so guys raving about it on this forum.

Real black or Pyrodex for me, somehow, somewhere, some people got the notion that sulfur in your muzzleloading powder was bad thing. They must be 209 shooters, because sulfur is the thing that provides sure fire ignition in your muzzleloading gunpowder.
 

arcticap

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I think the only people who ever liked the stuff are the half dozen or so guys raving about it on this forum.
There are literally thousands of people who may have initially fell in love with Black MZ for the price, but once they tried it they loved it even more, even though it only came in the 2F kitty litter granulation.
People all over the internet were posting about it, with many being experienced shooters who were able to compare it.
It created a lot of good will for both APP and Alliant.
Remember that it was being sold at a clearance price of $9.99/lb. over a period of years, probably close to being sold at cost or below cost.
Now that good will can help the company rebuild its market to remain the only competitor to Hodgdon.
This is not about a 1/2 dozen shooters on this forum.
This is about all of the internet buyers nationwide who tried the product, and those who regularly shop at Sportsman's Warehouse stores for muzzle loading supplies.
They eventually bought a warehouse full of it.
As of 2019, Sportsmans Warehouse has 103 stores in 27 states and is the largest, outdoor specialty store based in the Western United States and Alaska
 
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Carbon 6

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There are literally thousands of people who may have initially fell in love with Black MZ for the price, but once they tried it they loved it even more, even though it only came in the 2F kitty litter granulation.
People all over the internet were posting about it, with many being experienced shooters who were able to compare it.
It created a lot of good will for both APP and Alliant.
Remember that it was being sold at a clearance price of $9.99/lb. over a period of years, probably close to being sold at cost or below cost.
Now that good will can help the company rebuild its market to remain the only competitor to Hodgdon.
This is not about a 1/2 dozen shooters on this forum.
This is about all of the internet buyers nationwide who tried the product, and those who regularly shop at Sportsman's Warehouse stores for muzzle loading supplies.
They eventually bought a warehouse full of it.
As of 2019, Sportsmans Warehouse has 103 stores in 27 states and is the largest, outdoor specialty store based in the Western United States and Alaska
So then why did Alliant discontinue it, and why has it been rebranded under what is essentially a "no-name" ?

I think Sportsman's warehouse Bought a ton of it at a "clearance" price, hence their selling it for $9.99 a pound. and Alliant discontinuing it.

I'll admit I liked the powder for cartridges, but that's not what we are talking about here. It sucks as a muzzleloader propellant, it's useful application is very narrow. Real black powder fills every niche.
 

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