How "period correct"........

[Swampman]

Or they didn't want to put their name on a gun that wasn't stylish.

 

[Claude Mathis]

How important is this to you? How important was it back in the day?

If someone is trying to recreate the look and feel of history, then it's important, to them.

Back in "the day", I don't think people were reenacting or commissioning "reproductions" like we do today, so I'm not sure the term "period correct" would have applied to them.

IMHO

I'm sure the old master 'smiths never gave a thought as to whether their gun was correct for their time.

You're correct - anything built back then was correct for it's time. It could not be otherwise.

I guess what I was trying to ask is this, how flexible / inflexible were they in regard to their established style of gun building?

We have no way to know.

 

[BillinOregon]

I think interest in replicating past historical periods as a widespread avocation is a mostly recent phenomenon. I don't think there were "living historians" in the 18th or 19th centuries, save for the odd university man or wealthy antiquarian undertaking to excavate Troy or the Valley of the Kings. Folks in those time periods had not the luxury of modern medicine, personal security or dependable food supplies to dither with anything but the latest and best technology they could afford to survive and protect their loved ones. They were starved for information and news. Each day you woke to see the sun was another day you beat the devil, malaria, diphtheria, consumption(TB),runaway horses, angry indigenous persons, lowdown murdering scum, war and the authorities. We really lose sight sometimes of just how bloody cushy we have it sitting in front of our computers correcting each other.

 

[Claude Mathis]

I think interest in replicating past historical periods as a widespread avocation is a mostly recent phenomenon. I don't think there were "living historians" in the 18th or 19th centuries, save for the odd university man or wealthy antiquarian undertaking to excavate Troy or the Valley of the Kings. Folks in those time periods had not the luxury of modern medicine, personal security or dependable food supplies to dither with anything but the latest and best technology they could afford to survive and protect their loved ones. They were starved for information and news. Each day you woke to see the sun was another day you beat the devil, malaria, diphtheria, consumption(TB),runaway horses, angry indigenous persons, lowdown murdering scum, war and the authorities. We really lose sight sometimes of just how bloody cushy we have it sitting in front of our computers correcting each other.

:thumbsup:

 

[Doug Lykins]

Good comments from all, thanks.
The conclusion I draw is this;
IF my rifle has a sidelock, brass or iron hardware, an octagon barrel, a maple, walnut, or fruitwood stock, ALL of 18th-19th century theme, it is, more or less, period correct. I'm more of a hunter than a historian anyway. None the less, the beauty and style of these old style rifles is unsurpassed in the shooting sports.

I reckon if we were that wrapped up in "PC", we would sell our SUVs, ride horses, live in tents, and we sure wouldn't be communicating in cyber-space. :grin: :grin: :grin:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

It's only period correct if it actually reflects the firearms that were made in that period. While the sidelock, barrel and stock material are important, there's a lot more to it than that. A Hawken is a Hawken because of certain details that a Dimick doesn't have. But it is not correct outside its time period. The American longrifle changes overtime, and a Golden Age rifle would not be period correct for the F&I period. The Whitworth target rifle is period correct for a certain era and is a beautiful thing, but it would be out of place at a AWI gathering.

To someone who doesn't care about history or the period correctness of firearms and clothing etc., this is of no concern and there is no reason for it to be. It takes a lot of serious study and research to get the details right for re-enactments or trekking or even historically correct hunting, and most don't want to be bothered. But it does add a wonderful element to the experience and you needn't be a thread counter to enjoy it. :thumbsup:

 

[Doug Lykins]

Not very important within limits. The old rifles came in lots of different configurations. Subtle differences in lines of particular rifles don't bother me at all................
I am mostly concerned that the rifle stays in the spirit of the sport and fits me.

This sounds about right to me. I enjoy good shooting rifles with classic, authentic lines. I'm no actor and would likely do lousy at a reinactment. :shake: Would like to observe one someday though.

 

[Zoar]

Generally speaking: 1700--1840's gun makers were making guns with the most advanced technologies they had available to them where they were located, and yes it changed in many ways throughout that period, and also the form or artistry or aethetics also changed throughout that period depending on what was 'in vouge' and where.

One analogy is bicycle brakes. I have been riding road bikes for almost 5 decades. The bike brakes--although some would say have not changed much--they have gone through significant changes only partly affected by innovation. And, in the 1970's CENTERPULL BRAKES were considered TOP OF THE TECHNOLOGY and were in fashion while SIDE PULL BRAKES were considered old school and "Undesirable".... now all brakes are SIDEPULL AGAIN, but the materials and geometry have improved. I would say Guns in 1700's - ish period (eg Flintlocks) went through similar innovations/fads...

In part---the whole question of PC has to do with period/place. Some people are focused on revolutionary war eastern US, others 1800 to 1840-ish US, others on England 1750's, and so on...

Ultimately, the way I see it, Flintlocks are still evolving! hahahhahaa

 

[smallmouth]

Looking back to period correct -- something new? How about that guy Shakespeare we had to endure in High School? How about returns to Greek architecture, returns to Gothic style? NOW for something of more interest to us. What about that the Rococo style of the European Cathedrals mimicked on dressed up flinters? Now your talken Daddy! :thumbsup:

Sirjohn

 

[tg]

" I'm no actor and would likely do lousy at a reinactment"

I found that for myself, going hunting or for a day out in the woods in PC gear adds a lot to the game, it is like trying to experience things as they did in the past this can be done by one or onethousand. For me it really kicks up hunting a notch or two, and the closer you can get to your stuff being correct the better, just a feeling of accomplishment.

 

[Doug Lykins]

"
I found that for myself, going hunting or for a day out in the woods in PC gear adds a lot to the game, it is like trying to experience things as they did in the past this can be done by one or onethousand. For me it really kicks up hunting a notch or two, and the closer you can get to your stuff being correct the better, just a feeling of accomplishment.

I can understand that and it may matter more to me as I gain understanding of what is & isn't PC. :thumbsup:

 

[Geraldo]

I would hazzard a guess since they were still humans back then, that they acted just like humans.

Most gunmakers were doing it for a living... so if a customer wanted and could pay for some modifications, and the maker could do it, it probably got done. If they refused, it was likely because they either couldn't accomodate the request, didn't want to hassle with it, or, perhaps, just didn't like the cut of the customer's jib...

Ever deal with Germans? I have no basis other than my family and experience, but I would expect that a German gunsmith KNEW what he was doing and the customer did not. More carving? Sure. Silver instead of brass? OK. Don't like the shape of the stock? You have no idea what you're doing, buy a rifle elsewhere.

 

[Protrucker]

It's only period correct if it actually reflects the firearms that were made in that period.............It takes a lot of serious study and research to get the details right for re-enactments or trekking or even historically correct hunting, and most don't want to be bothered. But it does add a wonderful element to the experience and you needn't be a thread counter to enjoy it. :thumbsup:

There are a lot of people (myself included) that don't have the time to devote to study & research to reach the level of P/C accuracy some others expect. If my outfit/gun/kit aren't perfect for a certain time period, I'm not going to loose any sleep over it. I do try to make changes toward being closer to P/C as time & money allow, but I still enjoy the spirit of the hobby without being "perfect!"

 

[tg]

" I do try to make changes toward being closer to P/C as time & money allow, but I still enjoy the spirit of the hobby without being "perfect!"

That is a good approach and you or anyone else will only feel any pressure to be "PERFECT" from within.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Quote:
here are a lot of people (myself included) that don't have the time to devote to study & research to reach the level of P/C accuracy some others expect. If my outfit/gun/kit aren't perfect for a certain time period, I'm not going to loose any sleep over it. I do try to make changes toward being closer to P/C as time & money allow, but I still enjoy the spirit of the hobby without being "perfect!"

Exactly! Nobody starts out perfect. It does take time and effort. And, unfortunately, money. The only possible shortcut is having a friend or mentor who can save you from making the mis-steps a lot of us older guys made. Besides, it's all too easy to lose sight of the fact that we are supposed to be having fun here. And I doubt that there is any such thing as perfect anyway.

 

[omarick1948]

I don't want to get to far off the topic, but let's admit it! Probably 80% of todays active Traditional Muzzleloaders are people who enjoy shooting some type of traditional B/P arms and dress and live in some sort of early American tent/shelter at shoots and Rendezvous and like the idea of PC, but choose to do their own thing, their way!

Add another 10% who consider themselves totally or near totally PC for the same events etc. And love researching everything they do and make!

An another 10% who only likes to hunt with Tradtional arms and seldom if ever care about attending organized B/P events!

These are generalized percentages, but I don't think, that I'm too far off!

ALL ARE CARRYING ON OUR TRADITION!..THAT WILL BE PC IN FUTURE YEARS! ..... :thumbsup:

Rick

 

[nchawkeye]

I have often thought about this as well...I would have loved to have heard the conversation in say, 1770 in the Piedmont area of NC between a Moravian, Germanic gunsmith and one of the many Irish settlers that were moving into this area at that time...

I too have had to deal with Germans and they sure can be stubborn...It sure would have been interesting to have been a fly on the wall...

I will say when I built my version of a 1770 rifle that could have been built in this area of NC that I took about 2 years to do the research before I started the build...

 

[Bryanbrown]

Well since the broad majority of guns in the pre-cartidge era were "custom" to one level or another you do get "fashion" trends making x or y more common at various points in time and space. But I can cite examples of 1700s German Jaeger rifles with Spanish Miquilett locks, Italian furniture, and a Silesian/Bohemian style stock. And guns with multiple locks on one barrel to make "extra" sure they go off are not unheard of often combining technologies such as flint on one side, matchlock on the other.

So it comes down to what are you doing? Making a firelock for you? Reproducing an original? Making your own piece inspired by an original? making something up from the spare parts you have about as an experiment? All can be most satisfying and great fun.

Answering those questions will help you decide what your looking to do.


Bryan K. Brown www.gunsmithy.com www.jaegerkorps.org
[email protected]
[email protected]

Alle künst ist umsunst wenn ein Engle auf dem Zundlocke brünst.

 

[Bryanbrown]

Take a look at some of the mix and match in the firelocks in these articles
http://www.jaegerkorps.org/NRA/Hunting Guns in Colonial America.htm
http://www.jaegerkorps.org/NRA/American Made Muskets in the Revolutionary War.htm

Or some of the mix and match on these originals

Note all 3 of the guns below are made in "1820"
http://www.hermann-historica.com/
RIFLE, GUNS AND MUSKETS - FLINTLOCK AND PERCUSSION

Lot Nr.444

RIFLE, GUNS AND MUSKETS - FLINTLOCK AND PERCUSSION

Lot Nr.445

RIFLE, GUNS AND MUSKETS - FLINTLOCK AND PERCUSSION

Lot Nr.443

http://www.ambroseantiques.com/flongarms.htm

 

[Dphar]

Wsan't that a Beach Boys song..."True to Your School", about 1964? :rotf:

The "schools" are a 20th century invention.
Look at JP Beck. He made rifles that do not quite look like "Becks".
Look at the William Antes rifles in RCA vol I. Rifles #53-54 IIRC. They look to be from different "schools".
The original rifles are guides unless *exactly* copying a certain gun. The originals were made by hand often using store bought hardware. Import locks and barrels or barrels made locally by dedicated barrel makers.
You can combine features from 2-3 people in the same area and be "right".
Then we have imported pre-engraved buttplates and trigger guards with identical engraving or very close used by different people. This kinda gums up the "stay in the school" thing.
Then we have the 10s of thousands of rifles that did not survive to be looked at or grouped into a "school".
Dan