Hopkin & Allen Underhammers

[Billy Boy]

As a boy I scrolled through Gun Digest and Shooter's Bibles as if Christmas catalogs. Muzzleloader attracted my interest and back then H&A advertised the Minuteman, a sidelock long rifle, and an assortment of underhammer models. There was also sidelock half stock rifle I can't recall the model of. If I remember correctly the underhammer models were reasonably priced.

Watching auction sites the H&A underhammer models seem to bring fairly high prices for what they seem to be. I've no experience with them, does anyone know what makes them attractive on the used market?

Underhammers are direct ignition, hammer ears, cap flash, bolsters, are all out of line of sight, appeals to many folks. Usually the actual ‘works’ is 2 or 3 moving parts; this also appeals to some folks. I have a 62 smoothie on a Billinghurst style action, I love it. Down side- most underhammers can be rather homely to look upon.
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[FishDFly]

Some how, an ornate patch box would look out of place on an under hammer.

 

[Red Owl]

I grew up in Connecticut and Numrich Arms was just over the state line in NY. I THINK(not certain) that they were viewed as Eastern coach guns and in the 58 caliber used on black bear, etc. The underhammer was fast and foolproof and if it rained the cap stayed dry (or drier). All in all, a really nice muzzle loader.

 

[vintovka]

I am amazed at how underhammers like H&A have gone up. Up to a few years ago we could not give them away at shows or take them in the shop as they would not move. Within the last 2 weeks i have seen pistols go for $300+ and rifles start bidding wars. I recall being "gifted" an H&A boot pistol when we declined to buy it from a customer.

 

[Pork Chop]

What sites are you guys going to in order to track prices? I may want to sell some stuff one day and would like to get a reasonably good price for them.

 

[Metalshaper]

Here is ONE of Marlow's Underhammers. His H&A clone.

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

 

[Rawhide67]

About 6 months ago, I was offered the parts from a kit. Receiver, trigger, guard, spring, breach plug and stock bolt. Didn't know it at the time, but I got a good deal. He had been setting on it for 30 years, had $25 in it and wanted his money back out of it.
It's now waiting for me to retire, and I've already picked up a TC hawken barrel that will have to spend some time with Mr Hoyt.
Hopefully, it'll be a shooter.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

I really want one. I think the fast lock time would make one heck of a good woods walk rifle.
Tempted to buy the parts kit and machine my own receiver. Maybe do it using a Renegade barrel since they seem to sell cheap on eBay.

This is my copy of a RJ Renner underhammer. I purchased the receiver from Renner and a 54 cal barrel from Rice. You talk about fast hot ignition! This action has a coned breech plug with a musket nipple penetrating the back end of the cone. It has a shotgun butt plate to ease the recoil.
Larry

 

[longcruise]

Pins through the wood and the lower part of the barrel. If you look closely at the photo above (post #16) you can see the 2 pins in the forearm. This is true for H&A underhammers but not necessarily for H&A copies or other underhammers.

I'm guessing that the actual point of attachment is through conventional underbarrel lugs??

 

[longcruise]

Okay, so now another dumb question has crossed my mind (it's a dangerous crossing ).

Would it be doable to use a swamped barrel on a underhammer build.

 

[hawkeye2]

I'm guessing that the actual point of attachment is through conventional underbarrel lugs??

No, it's through the bottom of the barrel just up from the bottom flat.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Okay, so now another dumb question has crossed my mind (it's a dangerous crossing ).

Would it be doable to use a swamped barrel on a underhammer build.

I don't see why not. My underhammer is a taper, 1" to .800".
Larry

 

[longcruise]

No, it's through the bottom of the barrel just up from the bottom flat.

Hmmmm, not sure I'd be up to that approach. Interesting that it would be done that way. It's the starting the hole on a 45* angle steel surface that baffles me. Obviously there's a way to do it.

 

[hawkeye2]

Numrich was able to do it but I wouldn't try myself. I guess you could drill and tap up into the barrel but I'm not in favor of that method myself. If you look at the photo in the link below you'll see the way they attach the forearm with a combo ramrod guide and forearm attachment screw that dovetails into the barrel. They are available for separate sale but a little pricey. Under barrel lugs and wedges would work but you would need to add an under rib for the ramrod.

http://www.longrifles-pr.com/underhammer.shtml

 

[Secesh]

To me, the most important point I take away from studying some of the many different 19th century under-hammer rifle designs compared to 20th century designs is the shape and ergonomic design of the butt stock. A great number of the 20th century recreations of the under-hammer rifle or muzzle-loading rifles in general do not use the ”Fish Belly” or Michigan/Ohio type butt stock. This is very interesting. Have we forgotten too many of the innovations made, 150 or more years ago, regarding firearms?

 

[toot]

Some how, an ornate patch box would look out of place on an under hammer.

maybe, but they had them back in real time, back in the day. it was not for embellishment but a functional item.

 

[Mark Herman]

I have several H&A's that have the forearm attached by a dovetailed lug that has a ring as part of the lug. The ring has a threaded stud on the bottom to screw the forearm to and the ramrod goes through the ring.

 

[FishnRod]

I recently found a Heritage model in 45 caliber. Really excited to spend time at the range with it, and use it for deer season. Was wondering your thoughts about the lollipop rear sight. My 54 GPR wears a peep, and I love it, but this one seems like it would be awkward in a hunting situation.

 

[Mark Herman]

The H&A tang sight would be difficult in a hunting situation, they're made more for target shooting with the adjustable reticle. I have made table guns, chunk guns, trap guns and plinking guns from H&A under hammers. My trap gun has 3 different barrels. The whole package can be bought reasonably from Pecatonica or Deer Creek Products in kit or finished form. I have also played with an adjustable trigger, works well.

 

[TC]

I shot my 45 cal underhammer for the time today. Tried a .440 ball, .018 patch and 70 grains of 3f Goex. 50 yards off a rest produced this group.