Help me choose a gun!

[sar]

I think I've got some kind of disease. I can't decide what I want. I have a gpr (1:66) that shoots great, and a white mountain carbine that's great for close range spot in stalk in the heavy stuff around here. I bounce around bunches of other guns fixating on 'em (dbl .72 kodiak, gibbs, shotgun, etc)

FINALLY, I've decided I'd like to build another kit:
a smoothbore flintlock in .75 caliber(the big kick doesn't bother me any-I'm stout)

Someone mentioned a kit company(something like sitting bull) that I can't find via google.

I'm also looking at chambers and early rustic arms.
I like the rough look of the ERA "barn gun"
I'm a bit worried about the amount of work going into an ERA gun.

Anyway, I'd like to hear people's input about what kits they made from these companies and their results.

This gun will be used for hunting anything that might show up to my lease (hogs, deers, rabbits, squirrels, dove, ducks, maybe even an alligator(now legal in my county until june 30th))

Thanks for any ideas/input/etc.


Stephen

(if anyone knows how to cure this disease of wanting EVERY type of ml'er known to man, I'll take suggestions there, too)

 

[jethro224]

Was it Sitting Fox?

As for the disease, there is no cure. :haha:

 

[BrownBear]

Depending on your experience with builds, I'd sure give serious thought to doing a GPR. They're not all that expensive compared to most "parts set" kits, and there are really no landmines waiting for the beginner. Common hand tools are all you need. You could probably come close to putting one together and shoot it right out of the box. But the experience in fine tuning and finishing will be invaluable when it comes to building more demanding kits.

After all, you already like GPR's don't you? If your current gun is a 50, then by all means you NEED a 54. :thumbsup:

 

[jtmattison]

Take a look on Ebay. There are usually T/C Hawken and Renegade stocks on there. Get one of them, refinish it, and put a Green Mountain barrel on it. You'll have a semi-custom rifle that'll shoot a gnat in the eye at 100 yards.

HD

 

[sar]

Would like all of the above, but am planning a .75 flint smoothbore...

 

[sar]

The GPR I have was from a kit and fun to put together.
Has anyone built the early rustic arms kits? i'm really considering the barn gun. I like the look...

 

[horsesoldier03]

I recently seen a shop that specialized in smoothbores that was awesome. However, I didnt put it in my favorites because the price on them was much higher than I would let myself afford (approx $2000). However, if your set on a smoothbore, I love the looks and feel of a nice fullstock flint with a OCT to round barrel. I say go for it in the period and style of your preference! If you get over your head, there are plenty of people out there that you can go to for assistance and have them get you through the hard parts. I would make sure I ordered the Lock, Stock and Barrel from the same company and pay the extra money and have the stock pre inletted!
(I KNOW MY LIMITATIONS)

 

[tg]

Drop ERA a line and chat with them I have heard they are good to work with, the .75 is a lot of gun, great if you shoot geese and turkeys but a .69 or .62 might be something to think about depending on what ya gotta kill.

 

[BrownBear]

As long as you're contemplating a 75 cal flinter kit, a friend is in the final stages of finishing one with interchangeable smooth and rifled barrels. I don't recall who he got it from, but could find out. An acquaintance (and former GRRW smith) is contemplating a 75 flinter build for a bear hunt. Having been around 62's and 69's, as well as being on the receiving end of a brown bear charge while carrying a 54, it wouldn't take much to convince me to go for a 75. Even the 58 GRRW Hawken I picked up recently has a "small bore" feel to it. I'd be a lot more comfortable with something a lot bigger, but if you read between the lines I'm probably trying to justify a 75 cal of my own.... :surrender:

 

[paulvallandigham]

A lot of alaskan guides carry a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with slugs to defend against bear attacks. Attacks are rare, but Murphy's law tends to indicate that the next one will probably be you, if you don't prepare. A 12 Gauge is technically a .729" bore( .73 caliber), and a 10 gauge is .775, so a .75 bore Bess would be somewhere in between. Reports of bears shot at closing ranges with a 12 gauge slug indicates they are very effective at stopping the attacks.

A friend of mine went to Alaska on a fishing trip, and came back to anti-freedom Illinois, with big eyes, telling me, and others, about the two men who accompanied the party, one standing about 50 yards downstream, and the other the same distance upstream from the fishing party. Both were armed with " riot guns", in his words. The guide also was armed with a large caliber rifle. They did see bears fishing for the salmon, and gave them a wide birth.

 

[sar]

BrownBear,
I'd love to hear where he got that from. interchangeable barrels sound good!

Anyone have an opinion how ERA's "boat gun" would perform with such a short barrel?

In general what length of barrel is needed in a smoothbore to attain reasonable accuracy in the absence of rifling?

 

[BrownBear]

Welcome to the choir, but from your friend's report his guide added a lot of Hollywood to his trip.

Bears on fishing rivers are pretty overrated for their dangers to humans, unless of course the humans do something stupid like get too close or bother a sow with cubs. There's a bunch of food around at the time, and the bears are pretty well accustomed to taking turns at the best fishing spots. Add in the wide open spaces along most fishing rivers or out in the middle of them while wading, and it's pretty hard to surprise or be surprised by a bear. Just back off and let them have their turn or wait in line for your own turn till they are through.

Things turn radically different once you move away from the river and into terrain with limited sight distance or in the fall or winter when food is more scarce. Startle a bear up close, as will happen on narrow winding trails, and it's their choice between fight or flight. Smear a bunch of deer, elk or moose blood in the realm of a hungry bear and it's going to come looking for it, with the potential to fight for it if it can't steal it. Once it's got it though, it will fight to keep it.

My most recent bear charge (of the six I can clearly recall over the years) with the 54 caliber muzzleloader was the result of my own stupidity, but points out the paradox of hunting in bear country. You need to sneak around and be quiet while hunting deer, moose or elk, but you need to make noise to let bears know you're around.

I was moving through open terrain with seams of brush and scattered clumps when I heard the distinctive sound of bear cubs' high pitched growl. As quick as the hair on the back of my neck could stand up a pair of new cubs came rolling into view 40 yards or so away in the middle of a play fight.

Right behind them came mom, a small enough sow that I'm pretty sure they were her first cubs. In any case, I doubt she weighed much more than 500 pounds, while I'd estimate more mature sows average somewhere between 600 and 700 pounds.

In any case, she looked over the top of her cubs and saw me, and immediately launched. She closed the distance to around 20 feet in three big hops, woofing loudly each time she hit the ground. When she stopped she was popping her teeth loudly and slobbering more than the Hooch, the mastif in the Tom Hanks movie of the same name.

Experience told me from the nature of the charge that it was probably a bluff, but I was following her progress through the sights anyway. About one more hop and I'd have popped the cap.

But when she stopped, I waited a second and took a tentative step back. She didn't move, so I took another and another and started talking to her. I'd backed off about 10 feet when she took a few backwards steps then slowly turned and started walking back toward her cubs, watching me over her shoulder all the way. When she got to the cubs, who were both standing upright for a better view of the action, she popped one with her paw and both took off back into the brush before she could pop the second one. She gave me one more look and followed them out of sight.

And yes, I backed all the way out of that draw and finished the day hunting another in the opposite direction.

We live in the bush over 30 miles from Kodiak with a salmon stream one mile east of us and another two miles west of us. The headwaters of both converge on a ridge less than half a mile from the house. As a result, all summer long we frequently have bears passing within sight of the house, sometimes even taking a shortcut through our yard. 35 years of living this way has taught us a whole lot about bears. We don't give them much mind in summer, but the situation changes in fall and winter.

There was the time well after dark that one of them got tangled in our electric fence while trying to get at one of our horses, but that's a different story for a different day.......

 

[Toomuch_36]

For shooting single ball you would be wise to select something of 30" to 36" or better.
This length will prety much keep pace with most rifles to about 50 to 60yd. A longer barrel will extend the accurate range a bit further, but a shorter barrel will make a great scatter gun whether you use single ball or shot.

Shoot Flint
...........
Toomuch

 

[paulvallandigham]

I told my friend that the extra guards were probably not needed, but he was with some city people from Chicago, who didn't know how to fish, much less ever handle a gun before. They didn't know anything about wildlife, much less dangerous species. I quietly told him that bears were much less a concern duiring Spring and summer months, because they were busy feeding, and tending their young. Unless you got between cobs and their mothers, you were not likely to be bothered by the bears. But, these folks were so ignorant about everything, it probably was smart to put extra people on the job, not to protect the people, but to protect the bears From the people!

 

[sar]

Maybe not so traditional, but I'd probably just drop in a .460 rowland kit into my 1911 if I were in bear country-then hope that it stays holstered the entire trip.

brownbear,
where did your friend get that kit?

 

[paulvallandigham]

I think you may be looking for Sitting Fox Muzzleloaders.
http://www.sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/intro.html

They have a wide variety of gun kits for sale, it appears, from their website.

 

[BrownBear]

brownbear,
where did your friend get that kit?

I just noticed your question (sorry for the delay), and called to check with him. The basic kit was from TVM, but the barrels came from Riley Smith at 352-748-7373. My friend doesn't have any more contact info, but is delighted with the barrel work. And judging by the job he's doing on the build, as well as his other flinters, he knows what he's talking about. Zowie!!

Edit-

I just googled Riley Smith barrels and learned more:

Long Hammock Barrels, Inc
1066 Ne 130th Ave, Oxford, FL 34484-2211, United States
Phone: (352) 748-7373
SIC:Ordnance and Accessories, NEC
Line of Business:Mfg Of Barrels


Another edit- I just pinged TVM from my favorites folder, and the link I have just pulls up their front page and won't let me pass. Anyone else having that trouble or have a newer link?

 

[Oldnamvet]

http://www.avsia.com/tvm/

That is what I have for TVM. I just got in and looked at the guns. Excuse me while I claen the drool off the keyboard.

 

[BrownBear]

Yeah, that's the one I have, but it's still acting weird for me. Could be because my browser was published in about 1902. Could be time to update. :wink:

 

[mike alexandre]

Thanks for your informed post on bears in Alaska. We are off to fish the Goodnews in Aug with friends from ID and for us its the trip of a life time. Unlike the gang from Illinois we do know how to fish and as a muzzle loader I wish I had my bess beside me but that isnt going to happen.