My “slug gun” prefers PRB’s

[ElkStalker]

I am trying to work through a few things here. Where I am, elk and deer season overlap, so most days when I’m in the field hunting, I need to have a rifle capable for elk size critters, which would be no issue as long as I don’t get it backwards and have a deer rifle in my hand when a bull elk steps out. There is only maybe 2 or 3 weeks when I’m solely going after white tails. I bought a 50cal Renegade kit and built it with the hopes that it would shoot heavy conicals well. So far, it doesn’t like them. I still have a few things to try, a long with few I-bullets that HarleyBoss generously gifted me, before I give up. It shoots patched round balls amazingly well. At this point, it’s shooting tighter groups than my Lyman GPR. I also have a 50cal Hawken that does OK with both, but nothing spectacular beyond 50yds so far. If the next few tricks up my sleeve don’t pan out, My dilemma is this: would it be better to find a fast twist 50cal barrel for my Lyman, or would it be best to have the Renegade bored out to 54 or 58 slow twist? I have to admit, I sure like the weight and balance of the Renegade for hiking around over that heavy Lyman. I don’t have experience with either of the larger patched round balls. What I’m thinking is that a patched round ball in 54 or 58 is going to give me a flatter trajectory than a 300-400gr 50cal slug within 100yds.
I know that people have taken elk with a 50prb but I don’t particularly care for the 50yd limit. I’d rather have the extra margin for error and heavier projectile. I’m also thinking a bigger whole would be better than the 50cal, even though with the right bullet it may get better penetration. I’ve yet to shoot an elk with a muzzleloader, so I’m only going off what I have read. I feel under-gunned with a 50prb, and again don’t like the 50yd limit I’ve imposed on myself based on my reading. I’d still do my best to get as close as possible, but having a rifle that is capable to 100 would make me feel a whole lot better if an opportunity comes up at 75-80yds. Also, I’d like to hear input about caliber selection between 54 and 58. I’ve read good reports about both, however, is the 54 somehow magically that much greater than a 50cal with only .040” and an extra 40grains of weight? I guess the proof is in the pudding and I just don’t have the experience to make an educated decision without asking questions. I have plenty of time to think about it as the season doesn’t come back for another 10 months. Just wish I hadn’t have ended up with 3 50cals that aren’t serving my needs completely. But boy howdy, is this muzzleloader shooting fun. I’d even say it’s a blast!!! Thank you for your input.
The Hawken is not a candidate for a rebore because somebody d&t’d it long ago for scope mounts. (Who would do such a thing?)

On a side note, last week I got within 20 steps of a large spike bull elk before I even knew he was there. I wasn’t near fast enough to get my rifle up before he blew up down the drainage. That was a real hoot!! Good lesson too.

 

[david w]

I am trying to work through a few things here. Where I am, elk and deer season overlap, so most days when I’m in the field hunting, I need to have a rifle capable for elk size critters, which would be no issue as long as I don’t get it backwards and have a deer rifle in my hand when a bull elk steps out. There is only maybe 2 or 3 weeks when I’m solely going after white tails. I bought a 50cal Renegade kit and built it with the hopes that it would shoot heavy conicals well. So far, it doesn’t like them. I still have a few things to try, a long with few I-bullets that HarleyBoss generously gifted me, before I give up. It shoots patched round balls amazingly well. At this point, it’s shooting tighter groups than my Lyman GPR. I also have a 50cal Hawken that does OK with both, but nothing spectacular beyond 50yds so far. If the next few tricks up my sleeve don’t pan out, My dilemma is this: would it be better to find a fast twist 50cal barrel for my Lyman, or would it be best to have the Renegade bored out to 54 or 58 slow twist? I have to admit, I sure like the weight and balance of the Renegade for hiking around over that heavy Lyman. I don’t have experience with either of the larger patched round balls. What I’m thinking is that a patched round ball in 54 or 58 is going to give me a flatter trajectory than a 300-400gr 50cal slug within 100yds.
I know that people have taken elk with a 50prb but I don’t particularly care for the 50yd limit. I’d rather have the extra margin for error and heavier projectile. I’m also thinking a bigger whole would be better than the 50cal, even though with the right bullet it may get better penetration. I’ve yet to shoot an elk with a muzzleloader, so I’m only going off what I have read. I feel under-gunned with a 50prb, and again don’t like the 50yd limit I’ve imposed on myself based on my reading. I’d still do my best to get as close as possible, but having a rifle that is capable to 100 would make me feel a whole lot better if an opportunity comes up at 75-80yds. Also, I’d like to hear input about caliber selection between 54 and 58. I’ve read good reports about both, however, is the 54 somehow magically that much greater than a 50cal with only .040” and an extra 40grains of weight? I guess the proof is in the pudding and I just don’t have the experience to make an educated decision without asking questions. I have plenty of time to think about it as the season doesn’t come back for another 10 months. Just wish I hadn’t have ended up with 3 50cals that aren’t serving my needs completely. But boy howdy, is this muzzleloader shooting fun. I’d even say it’s a blast!!! Thank you for your input.
The Hawken is not a candidate for a rebore because somebody d&t’d it long ago for scope mounts. (Who would do such a thing?)

On a side note, last week I got within 20 steps of a large spike bull elk before I even knew he was there. I wasn’t near fast enough to get my rifle up before he blew up down the drainage. That was a real hoot!! Good lesson too.

I wish I lived in Elk country. It's been many years since I was invited to a private ranch in Colorado. I shot a bull Elk , and we had to gut, quarter, and haul the meat out on a mule. It was the first time I ate Elk. I shared the meat with the property owner, and he kept the rack. I stayed in a cabin free of rent, no charge for the hunt. I did supply beer, (not Coors). Elk is the best meat I've ever eaten.

 

[ElkStalker]

I wish I lived in Elk country. It's been many years since I was invited to a private ranch in Colorado. I shot a bull Elk , and we had to gut, quarter, and haul the meat out on a mule. It was the first time I ate Elk. I shared the meat with the property owner, and he kept the rack. I stayed in a cabin free of rent, no charge for the hunt. I did supply beer, (not Coors). Elk is the best meat I've ever eaten.

What’s wrong with Coors??? Lol
I agree, best meat I have ever eaten, however, Moose is right up there with it, based on the pound I was gifted. I have not put in for a moose hunt yet, but once I get this dilemma solved, I plan to. I’ve seen more moose here on a regular basis than anything else. I even crashed into a cow moose 2 years ago, on my bicycle, while getting in shape for elk season. That was not a fun walk back to the car and spend 6 hours in the ER getting X-rays. She ran right across my front tire while I was at full speed to get to her calf. Never saw it coming. Flipped over the handlebars, and the moose, and splatted on the asphalt. I swear sometimes, if I didn’t have bad luck, I’d have none at all.
Congratulations on your bull. What did you take him with? Too bad the landowner kept the rack, but I suppose that’s a fair trade if you got to hunt for free.

 

[SwanShot]

Turn it into, or buy a .54. It's a bit much gun for lighter game but over kill is better than under kill.

 

[harleysboss]

If those conicals that I sent you don't work out and you are thinking about having one of your 50 cal barrels bored out, call Bobby Hoyt. I've had a couple barrels done by him. Quality work and reasonable. turn around time is not to bad either. My vote would be a 58, why? Because it's a 58 and I just like the 58 cal. Plus I like to live by the words of Theodore Roosevelt "Speak softly and carry a big stick" . I've got a 54 Renegade barrel that I was gifted and it looks new on the outside but the inside was quite frosty. It cleaned up ok and is shooting ok but I have a sneaking suspicion that it will be traveling to Mr. Hoyt to be turned into a 58 with a RB twist. If you decide to go that route I have his current number and address. Also check out the hunting section, good debate about 58 cal hunting loads.

 

[ElkStalker]

If those conicals that I sent you don't work out and you are thinking about having one of your 50 cal barrels bored out, call Bobby Hoyt. I've had a couple barrels done by him. Quality work and reasonable. turn around time is not to bad either. My vote would be a 58, why? Because it's a 58 and I just like the 58 cal. Plus I like to live by the words of Theodore Roosevelt "Speak softly and carry a big stick" . I've got a 54 Renegade barrel that I was gifted and it looks new on the outside but the inside was quite frosty. It cleaned up ok and is shooting ok but I have a sneaking suspicion that it will be traveling to Mr. Hoyt to be turned into a 58 with a RB twist. If you decide to go that route I have his current number and address. Also check out the hunting section, good debate about 58 cal hunting loads.

Bobby Hoyt is at the top of my list. I have not made it to the range yet to try out those I-bullets. I unloaded my gun yesterday from hunting season and need to give it a scrubbing. I hope to get to the range tomorrow, but we will see how that goes. Im planning to test your bullets in the 50 and get a small game load dialed in for the 45. I figured some Hare, squirrel and grouse hunts this winter may be a good time and might put a little meat in the pot.
58cal - something about it just sounds right. I may end up looking for a shot-out renegade barrel to use for a rebore because this barrel shoots patched round balls so well. The good news now is, I have plenty of time to experiment and try to get this thing grouping well. Thank you again for your kindness and generosity. Hopefully I will have a range report for you soon.

 

[new2bp]

I'd spend a little more powder experimenting a bit more with your load, like putting a wad (lubed or dry, try both) between powder and a maxiball. My 1:48 twist .54 CVA shoots the Dixie Gun Works maxis and .530 RB with about the same level of accuracy, about 4moa which is about as good as I can do with irons anyway...

 

[ElkStalker]

I'd spend a little more powder experimenting a bit more with your load, like putting a wad (lubed or dry, try both) between powder and a maxiball. My 1:48 twist .54 CVA shoots the Dixie Gun Works maxis and .530 RB with about the same level of accuracy, about 4moa which is about as good as I can do with irons anyway...

I’m not giving up yet. I have a few more tricks to try. I’ve been using 54cal felt overpowder wads and those did shrink groups in half or better. Went from 6-8in 50yd groups to 2-3” and now all shots will hit within 6” at 100yds. Before employing the OP wad, I couldn’t keep every shot on paper. To me, this still isn’t good enough because I do get flyers within those groups that I can’t disregard. I’d rather see 2” 100yd groups. I agree, more range time is in order. But this after about $200 worth of various conicals, a crown job and 3 pounds of powder to get to this point. It’s getting to be quite frustrating. I’ve used maxi-hunters, maxi-balls, Lee Real bullets, Hornady GP bullets, Especially when this rifle will shoot patched round balls as well as it does. This is 4 shots at 50 yards. The wide shot was a fouling shot which is always wide in this rifle.
Years ago I had a Lyman GP Hunter and it would shoot 1-2” 100yd groups all day long with 100gr of 2F and a Hornady GP bullet. Wish I had not let it go. At any rate, I’m going to burn some more powder and try a few other bullets and if after this attempt I can’t get the accuracy I expect, it will just be a designated round ball rifle and possibly get rebored to something larger than a 50.

 

[Blitz]

I wish I lived in Elk country. It's been many years since I was invited to a private ranch in Colorado. I shot a bull Elk , and we had to gut, quarter, and haul the meat out on a mule. It was the first time I ate Elk. I shared the meat with the property owner, and he kept the rack. I stayed in a cabin free of rent, no charge for the hunt. I did supply beer, (not Coors). Elk is the best meat I've ever eaten.

I sadly have never taken anelk have eaten it though and moose and both are far better than any deer I have eaten Ca, blacktail, except for an eastern Montana doe ,now that was good. I do however love fresh deer liver. Like I told my dad 75 or more years ago ( keep the liver forget the rest.

Buzz