My local gun show was this weekend. Pretty disappointing overall, a traditional BP selection was almost non-existent. One guy did have a colt navy, pietta made, that was tempting for $135. But he didn't know the caliber and it wasn't marked on the barrel. He seemed to know little about the gun's condition and obviously had never fired it, maybe took it in on trade. Looked like a small amount of rust here and there. One thing that did look different to me. Each bore on the cylinder was chamfered. Would that indicate it had been bored out to fit a larger caliber?
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Gun show revolver
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Some folks do that to make it easier to load conicals.
The correct Navy calibre is .36, but many replicas are also in .44cal. :nono:
tac
The correct Navy calibre is .36, but many replicas are also in .44cal. :nono:
tac
Thanks Tac. Would chamfering the cylinder make it more difficult to shave a ring of lead from a Round ball? And you are right, he had it marked as a navy, which would be .36 caliber but I couldn't distinguish that with any markings, maybe the engraving scene on the cylinder would have given it away.
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When you chamfer the mouths of the cylinder you will no longer shave a ring of lead instead the ball will be swaged into the cylinder.
Colt did this on originals as a means of preventing chain fires. The angle of incidence being equal to the angle of reflection Colt stated in one of his writings that when the chamber mouths were chamfered loose powder placed over the balls would not ignite when other chambers were fired.
Colt did this on originals as a means of preventing chain fires. The angle of incidence being equal to the angle of reflection Colt stated in one of his writings that when the chamber mouths were chamfered loose powder placed over the balls would not ignite when other chambers were fired.
I would think that instead of shaving a ring it would swage the bullet ( or ball) down to an exact fit. Another way to tell what the caliber is on a navy gun is to see if the cylinder is "stepped" like on a 1860 army. A .36 navy will a have straight sided cylinder while a .44 will have the slightly larger front 1/2 to chamber the larger slugs.
I'm pretty sure I could tell the difference between .36 and .44/.45 by looking at the size of the bore? Not between .44 and .45 but the .36 would be easy to see it wasn't approaching the 45 cal size :idunno:
The presence or absence of a chamfer on the chamber mouth tells you nothing. I have all my Remington cylinders reamed (not bored) to a larger size to take a ball of slightly over bore diameter and the mouth of the chamber is left square or sharp. I could easily chamfer them but see no reason to do so. To prevent chainfires around the ball it has to be a nearly perfect fit to the chamber walls. This can be accomplished 2 ways. A square edge can be left to shave a ring of lead off or the mouth can be chamfered to swage the ball down. Either way will give the same result and neither way has any advantage over the other.
The cylinder scene is the same (navel battle) on both the '51 Navy (the .36 and the .44 versions) and the '60 Army so that doesn't tell you anything. If it is .36 caliber then it is a Navy, if it is .44 it is a "Navy" or a fantasy gun as there never was a .44 caliber Colt Navy. A .44 caliber "Navy" has a cylinder with an enlarged or larger diameter forward portion just like an 1860 Army. There will be a step in the cylinder and also a step in the frame to accommodate the larger forward diameter of the cylinder.
A .36 Navy could probably be enlarged to .40 safely but would be kind of an odd size and would have been done by an individual. [I know of one 'smith who enlarges the .38 cartridge conversion cylinders for the Navy to take .41 Colt which is then fired through the original bore using Cowboy Loads with no ill effects however that is really outside the permitted area of discussion here and I only mention it to show it can be done]
With a little rust and a seller who knows nothing about the gun it's probably as well you left it on the table even for that price.
The cylinder scene is the same (navel battle) on both the '51 Navy (the .36 and the .44 versions) and the '60 Army so that doesn't tell you anything. If it is .36 caliber then it is a Navy, if it is .44 it is a "Navy" or a fantasy gun as there never was a .44 caliber Colt Navy. A .44 caliber "Navy" has a cylinder with an enlarged or larger diameter forward portion just like an 1860 Army. There will be a step in the cylinder and also a step in the frame to accommodate the larger forward diameter of the cylinder.
A .36 Navy could probably be enlarged to .40 safely but would be kind of an odd size and would have been done by an individual. [I know of one 'smith who enlarges the .38 cartridge conversion cylinders for the Navy to take .41 Colt which is then fired through the original bore using Cowboy Loads with no ill effects however that is really outside the permitted area of discussion here and I only mention it to show it can be done]
With a little rust and a seller who knows nothing about the gun it's probably as well you left it on the table even for that price.
Redheart, I kind of lost track of this thread and I apologize for the delay in replying. I sent you a PM regarding cylinder reaming.
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At the moment I don't recall exactly. It may have been Colt's "Application of machinery to revolving cylinder firearms". There are two locations Colt mentioned redirecting gases and fouling. One is the aforementioned chamber mouths and the other is a reduced diameter section of the arbor just in front of the cylinder to reduce binding from cylinder fouling. This can still be seen on some, not all, replicas.
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Did a little checking. You can find some sites from Colt: Arms, Art, and Invention on Google books. Here is a link.
https://books.google.com/books?id=...age&q=sam colt on chamfering cylinder&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=...age&q=sam colt on chamfering cylinder&f=false
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Get a bore gauge and put in your key ring.
Plenty of Italian makers chamfered their cylinders over the years too btw.
Plenty of Italian makers chamfered their cylinders over the years too btw.
tac said:
On a Colt open top revolver, if the forward half of the cylinder is larger than the rear half, with a matching mill cut across the forward section of the cylinder frame, it most likely was a .44.
If both the cylinder and the frame beneath are straight, it's more likely to have been a .36 cal.
I've never come across a straight-walled .36 cylinder bored out to .44, maybe because the rebore would result in chamber walls that are too thin.
This is a .36 cal:
This is a .44 cylinder on the Colt Navy(size) Frame:
.
Let's not forget the pocket colts in .36 caliber; they too have stepped water tables and enlarged cylinders.
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Berkley
Thank you that was the exact text I was referring to.
Thank you that was the exact text I was referring to.
