Grains by weight or volume???

[Uncle Miltie]

I wonder how much affect humidity has on powder weight?


We haven't beat this horse to death yet.

Powder weight not so much as humidity would only have a marked effect if the powder was left out in the open. It will affect point of impact at the target though the only folks who pay much mind are the slug and picket shooters.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

FWIW competitors have used scales to weigh powder charges since the 1830's.

 

[Redlemur60]

Picking hairs off mothballs!
Yall are wired too tight!
Jist shoot it!
Some very old ideal loading pamphlet ź might be enlightening!
"Traditionally by volume for all the reasons deerstalker has already pointed out
But , all yer azzez are still too tight
RELLAX,GEEZ SMOKE 1 ER SUMMIN

 

[Uncle Miltie]

Picking hairs off mothballs!
Yall are wired too tight!
Jist shoot it!
Some very old ideal loading pamphlet ź might be enlightening!
"Traditionally by volume for all the reasons deerstalker has already pointed out
But , all yer azzez are still too tight
RELLAX,GEEZ SMOKE 1 ER SUMMIN

Not wound tight my friend just a different way of looking at things, that's all.

 

[mushka]

I'm easy going with black powder guns and loads. Gave up rifle competition years ago and feel better for it. I made all my BP measures out of a wood broom handle. Drilled them out and poured powder in them til they accepted powder two grns either way of the weight I wanted that measure to throw. The smaller calibers I kept a little closer. I hit what I'm aiming most of the time and when I miss it ain't the powder's fault. People can get anal about this stuff but that isn't the reason I came to black powder shooting. I needed a break from mind breaking perfection.

 

[david w]

I measure by volume, but I calibrated my measure by weight.

 

[Bunk]

Have you ever considered that some people who only shoot muzzle loaders, or that don't reload for cartridge guns,,,,, don't even own a powder scale?! Maybe they only have one of the adjustable volume measures sold as a black powder accessory? Maybe they developed their load using this and then made a dedicated individual measure or charger for that load based on the volume of the adjustable measure?

Of course, this could never really work and they would be all wrong wouldn't they....

Own a powder scale? In fact I own 4 powder scales (don't ask) but load real Gunpowder or APP by volume. I really have no idea How much it mashes down on a scale. First obtain the length of the measure stem (a 50 grain handgun measure) with a caliper and divided that length by 50. That established the stem length for the volume of one grain. Then set the desired measure weight (volume )with a caliper and get very repeatable amounts.
Weight? I don't bother with no stinkin' weight.
In fact this system my be a bit AR it is the German coming out in me.
For unmentionables or paper cartridges just simply fill to give about 1/16" compression with the bullet base.
Using loose powder and ball in the cap revolvers the measure is set to17 grains for.36 CAL and 20 grains for the .44'S .
The Sharps and Smith are another matter for the rifle forum.
Don't shoot them much anyway revolvers are more fun.
Respectfully
Bunk

 

[SwanShot]

Geez, find a load by volume that works with your powder of choice…weigh several for an average to get a target weight for that volume….then for the sake of consistency weigh out a range session worth of charges.

Are we really gonna discuss and argue this *Standard Operating Procedure* for 7 more pages?

Yep, too easy

 

[SwanShot]

We haven't beat this horse to death yet.

No but the poor bugger is staggering.

 

[Brokennock]

Own a powder scale? In fact I own 4 powder scales (don't ask) but load real Gunpowder or APP by volume. I really have no idea How much it mashes down on a scale. First obtain the length of the measure stem (a 50 grain handgun measure) with a caliper and divided that length by 50. That established the stem length for the volume of one grain. Then set the desired measure weight (volume )with a caliper and get very repeatable amounts.
Weight? I don't bother with no stinkin' weight.
In fact this system my be a bit AR it is the German coming out in me.
For unmentionables or paper cartridges just simply fill to give about 1/16" compression with the bullet base.
Using loose powder and ball in the cap revolvers the measure is set to17 grains for.36 CAL and 20 grains for the .44'S .
The Sharps and Smith are another matter for the rifle forum.
Don't shoot them much anyway revolvers are more fun.
Respectfully
Bunk

I confess, I have 4 of them myself. 3 balance beam scales,,,, one of which I hate and won't use (a Lee), and one digital.
I don't use them for muzzleloader shooting though. I've run some tests using them to see how consistently I pour from horn into charger, and to see how much the chargers are throwing by weight, and then comparing that between 2f and 3f. But I dont use them to work up a load or preload anything to shoot my flintlocks with.

 

[Longrangehunter]

I guess this is why black powder is so forgiving, i.e. If a weighed charge from 72.5-82.5 3Fg produces the same velocity, then volume is perfectly acceptable. Use 77.5, whether it's low or high by volume it's still the same speed as long as it's the same lot of powder.

 

[sportster73hp]

Not to confuse the smoke or no smoke people but lee dies come with a volumetric scoop to use if you dont have a scale.
I use the same adjustable volume measure with my blackpowder guns as i found a second measure i own throws differently at the same marked number.
My shooting is offhand not benchrest so a little difference +or - doesn’t hurt.

 

[MTFURY]

Didn't want to start a war, it was a very interesting exchange of ideas. Thanks for all the input but I think its time to stop this thread and come up with another topic. Thanks again for the input.

 

[Brokennock]

Not to confuse the smoke or no smoke people but lee dies come with a volumetric scoop to use if you dont have a scale.
I use the same adjustable volume measure with my blackpowder guns as i found a second measure i own throws differently at the same marked number.
My shooting is offhand not benchrest so a little difference +or - doesn’t hurt.

This is true. And their powder disk dispenser works by volume,,, but, ine matches the disk aperture to the powder used in order to get the correct weight of that powder using the chart that comes with the disk and the dipper set. It is actually very accurate and very consistent,,,, but,,, also very limiting.

Has anyone tried dispensing black powder charges through their "Auto-disc" dispenser? If so, how consistent was it? Is there a chart that tells which aperture drops a given amount of 2f or 3f, how close was it?

 

[Omega Vision]

I have always loaded my muzzleloader with grains by weight, now I am being told I am doing it wrong it should be grains by volume.
I have never heard of loading by volume but maybe I live to far out in the sticks and am too old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please enlighten me.

Thanks

I've always used the Volume method. But I will never argue with anyone who prefers loading by Weight.

 

[Red Owl]

No war going on at all, just an exchange on information. While this is a muzzle loader forum we need to consider modern reloading and then switch back. On modern reloading you put a charge in a brass case, then you seat the bullet BUT UNLIKE muzzle loading you can have some dead air space in the case. The bullet is seated to an Overall length O.A.L. If you seat the bullet DEEPER in the case it increases pressure and thus velocity, etc. So, with modern reloading you weigh the charge and then seat the bullet to a precise OAL.
For various reasons the manufacturing control on black powder and black powder substitutes is such that in order to make them equal in preformance- fillers are added so all volumes give the same amount of energy.
I had a huge supply of black powder years ago and weighed all my Navy 36 charges. I thought I got better accuracy and since it was ALL ONE BATCH it seemed okay. If I had been switching around- then a volume would have been better. In any event I retested everything and discovered the "advantage" was psychological- I had more confidence in the weighed charges and the confidence is what was making me shoot better.
In any event, with muzzle loaders, if you weigh the charge and then seat the ball tight on the charge, and the weighed charges have various volumes, then the accuracy is going to be different. In any event the guys that took all the trophies at Friendship used volume measures. I think most had the attachment that swings horizontally and swipes off the excess powder above the top of the measure.
Most modern reloading with progressive reloading presses use a volume type set up. Don't think you are improving matters by weighing each charge. On modern rifle- I weigh every charge but that is a different thing.

 

[senseisugarbear]

My family was in the FIREWORKS manufacturing business before I was born,It's how I made my living for 23yrs. Weight is Critical. We used several hundred tons of powder a year. We ALWAYS weighed a charge for the proper lift then made a dipper to hold the VOLUME of that WEIGHT,for the sake of time and to speed up the loading process.
The confusion started with BP substitutes.Most all of us have a adjustable measure of some sort,The WEIGHING has been done for us by the maker of the measure.Once you find the load your rifle likes ,you can carve out a measure that holds the VOLUME of your preferred WEIGHT. .......Be SAFE>>>>>>>>>Wally

 

[user 55620]

When you say weight, do you really mean mass? Instead of using ounces and grains, should you not be using Newtons?

 

[senseisugarbear]

When you say weight, do you really mean mass? Instead of using ounces and grains, should you not be using Newtons?

I thought my explaination was pretty clear,The only time Newtons would enter into the process is if we felt that we needed more FIBER in our diet....Be Safe>>>>>>>>Wally

 

[52Bore]

Weighing confirms how accurate you are Volumetric dispensing.