Flintlock pistol ownership in Canada

[aragorn]

This is not a gripe or an opening gambit for a discussion on gun legislation, which is banned on this forum and will result in this thread being shut down. It is simply a practical query aimed at Canadian muzzleloaders. I've posted it on the general forum - rather than the pistol forum - because it might catch people who have thought of pistol ownership but been put off, for the following reasons.

I am thinking of building a flintlock pistol, and am uncertain of the legality. The relevant section of the Canadian firearms legislation is copied below. It shows that I can own a reproduction flintlock long gun without needing any paperwork (I can also buy powder and ball without a permit, and shoot on my own land without a permit - hoorah). However, the factsheet shows that a flintlock pistol is regarded as a firearm and has to be registered. What is unclear is whether or not a flintlock pistol comes under 'handgun' legislation, which is very restrictive in Canada. Of course I could try to find out by contacting the Firearms Centre, but that only seems to be asking for trouble - next thing I know my place would be surrounded by the RCMP. So before going that route I thought I'd see what the experience of other Canadian residents on the forum has been who own or have thought of owning flintlock pistols (particularly those who have built them from parts sent piecemeal from the US, and thus have not had to buy them over the counter as 'firearms' - what do you do when you've finished making your pistol, take it to the local police station to register it, and how do you escape being handcuffed for somehow acquiring a 'handgun' without a restricted firearms licence?).

Again, I'm not soliciting comments about the rights and wrongs of legislation, just any advice from those who have been in this situation. Regrettably, the bottom line is that if the law is going to consider a flint pistol equal to a Glock or Beretta, then I'm going to stick to my long guns ...

Here is the relevant extract from the factsheet issued by the Candian Firearms Centre (www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/info_for_resneignement/factsheet/antique_e.asp):

Antique Firearms
If you own or wish to acquire an antique firearm, here is some information you should know about how the Firearms Act applies to firearms that meet the definition of an antique, as set out in the Criminal Code and the Criminal Code Regulations.

The Definition of an Antique
The Criminal Code defines antique firearms as:

firearms manufactured before 1898 that were not designed or re-designed to discharge rim-fire or centre-fire ammunition, or
firearms prescribed as antique firearms in the Criminal Code regulations. These are:

Black Powder Reproductions:
of flintlock, wheel-lock or matchlock firearms, other than handguns, manufactured after 1897; (All other reproductions must be registered and owners must have a firearm licence to possess them. For example, reproductions of percussion cap muzzle-loading firearms like American Civil War Enfield and Springfield rifles will be considered firearms and not antiques.)

Rifles:
manufactured before 1898 that can discharge only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges;
manufactured before 1898 that can discharge centre-fire cartridges (whether with a smooth or rifled bore), have a bore diameter of 8.3 mm or greater, measured from land to land in the case of a rifled bore, with the exception of a repeating firearm fed by any type of cartridge magazine

Shotguns:
manufactured before 1898 that can discharge only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges;
manufactured before 1898 that can discharge centre-fire cartridges, other than 10, 12, 16, 20, 28, or 410 gauge cartridges

Handguns:
manufactured before 1898 that can discharge only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges;
manufactured before 1898 that can discharge centre-fire cartridges, other than a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 32 Short Colt, 32 Long Colt, 32 Smith and Wesson, 32 Smith and Wesson Long, 32-20 Winchester, 38 Smith and Wesson; 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38-40 Winchester, 44-40 Winchester, or 45 Colt cartridges

Licensing and Registration Requirements

If you own only antique firearms you do not need to:

get a firearms licence; or
register any of your antique firearms.

 

[mckutzy]

dont quote me on this.
i think the barrel will have to be a min. 18" and a OAL of 26" for a muzzle loading flintlock. then i believe it will then be a "long gun". For ex. a short blunderbuss.

 

[fluggies4]

A flintlock pistol falls under the restricted category, the same as any type of handgun, and must be registered accordingly. If you build it from a kit, it is illegal until registered and issued a serial number. Transport and use of a flintlock pistol also falls under the same restrictions as any handgun.

 

[zoomer]

You can build a flintlock pistol,however you need a PAL licence not just a POL (possesion only since you are aquiring a new firearm) and as it would be new it is also classed as a new handgun(under the same rules as a 44 magnum) which means you also need to have a restricted class Pal.The cfc has changed the firearm verifier system so your best bet is to call them and ask about registering it before you build it.You can also only shoot it at a government approved range.
Note: The above rules only apply to law abiding people, criminals dont bother following them. :shocked2:

 

[mckutzy]

ya.. i guess i escaped the base of the question..sorry.

 

[mbw907]

Thanks for the info guys. Us here in the states like to know how the other countrie's laws work, too. We take a lot for granted about our freedoms. Freedom ain't free is a true and accurate statement. But I better shut it off. I'm sounding political now. :yakyak: Thanks again to All of you veterans!

 

[noworries]

I have several "Rendezvous & Longrifles" magazines dating back 25 years ( it is "A Canadian Black Powder Publication") Now I know why there was never any articles on pistols. Makes me appreciate this pistol I am inleting right now a bit more

 

[F.G. Ford]

You can build your flint lock pistol as you wish, and do whatever you wish with it ( other than a menaceing manner) until you drill a vent hole in the barrel...then it becomes a gun, that must be registered as a restricted firearm.
That being the case, build it assign a serial number to the frame ( tang or barrel).....apply for registration. You may have to show it to some firearms verification officer ( presently there are none ??) then drill your vent hole.
Simple....isn"t it.

GOOD LUCK !

Best Regards
Old Ford
Cardinal, Ontario, Canada

 

[faw3]

Thats a lot of :bull: to get thru, think I'll pass on going to Canada and go straight to Alk do not pass go ..ect feel really sorry for you guys, Im afraid with all that Id blow right thru the law's with out even trying to. fred :hatsoff:

 

[Halftail]

Thats a lot of :bull: to get thru, think I'll pass on going to Canada and go straight to Alk do not pass go ..ect feel really sorry for you guys, Im afraid with all that Id blow right thru the law's with out even trying to. fred :hatsoff:

Really FW,
It's not all that bad living up here in Canada.Gun laws and all I really love the place.Really I'd appreciate it if you didn't feel sorry for me.
To the guy that was appreciating his Veterens,we have them here too and we honour and treat them with just as much[url] respect.Aside[/url] from having some restrictions on guns our to countries aren't all that different.

 

[soggy]

Im afraid with all that Id blow right thru the law's with out even trying to. fred :hatsoff:

:winking: Yeah that's a good attitude FW; every year a half a dozen or so of your fellow country men feel the same when they try to enter Canada using the Maine-Yarmouth ferry system. They try to avoid our laws,and not declare that they have a restricted weapon with them. They wind up not only paying a heafty fine but lose their firearm as well :rotf:
Soggy

 

[Halftail]

:rotf:

 

[faw3]

I guess maybe youv missed my point, so many gun laws I couldnt keep up with like who would care about flintlocks has anyone gotton robbed by one this year or last even? ""you need a PAL licence not just a POL (possesion only since you are aquiring a new firearm"" dont even know what this means but sounds like :bull: to me. As far as the rest of the place Im sure Id really like it guys, just somethings are a bit tight, got to keep up with the terr's i guess. :grin: Fred :hatsoff:

 

[Halftail]

I guess maybe youv missed my point, so many gun laws I couldnt keep up with like who would care about flintlocks has anyone gotton robbed by one this year or last even? ""you need a PAL licence not just a POL (possesion only since you are aquiring a new firearm"" dont even know what this means but sounds like :bull: to me. As far as the rest of the place Im sure Id really like it guys, just somethings are a bit tight, got to keep up with the terr's i guess. :grin: Fred :hatsoff:

I probably missed your point some.Aren't there some States that have tighter Regs than others?Or is every state the same?

 

[Zonie]

Each State has it's own laws concerning firearms.
In States that don't prohibit it, the Citys sometimes impose even more stringent regulations.

In Phoenix, Arizona for instance, I can legally strap a Colt .45 Peacemaker (or a Glock) on my hip and walk down Central Ave. I cannot do the same if it is hidden under my coat however.
To legally carry concealed I would have to have a permit.

 

[Halftail]

Each State has it's own laws concerning firearms.
In States that don't prohibit it, the Citys sometimes impose even more stringent regulations.

In Phoenix, Arizona for instance, I can legally strap a Colt .45 Peacemaker (or a Glock) on my hip and walk down Central Ave. I cannot do the same if it is hidden under my coat however.
To legally carry concealed I would have to have a permit.

Do people in Phoenix Arizona do that?Is it a commom thing?

 

[Rebel]

No it isn't a common thing but it is legal, although if you actually tried it you may find yourself being interviewed by a police officer wanting to know whay you were wearing a gun.

 

[faw3]

to Soggy and Halftail, the point is ,,,I like Canada ,never tryed to hunt or bring a gun in, what Im use to here in Tex is throw your shotgun ,rifle, or whatever in the back window rack of the old pick up and head down town, no big D.. deal. In Canada with all those POs and PLs and I would screw up in a heart beat, Hope that helps :grin: Fred :hatsoff: And ya some states are tuff and others arent , some it goes by town to town I thought this was about Canada and how with so many (sounds like) rules I would screw up quick

 

[Halftail]

I was around here too when you could sling your rifle or shotgun up in the back window and drive around all day,no big deal.Not all that many years ago either.I got used to the rules and regulations and yes I had to take a Gun course(GASP) to get my PAL(Possesion and aquistion)Card.Here's another groaner...We also have to take a safty hunters course before we are allowed to go hunting.That is only once in a lifetime thing though.Usually when we are around 12 years of age.I got most of my rifles and shotguns registered too.All my info is on some Government Computer Data base.Does that make your toes curl?Not mine.I don't like it but it's what I had to do to keep on enjoying my Hobby of hunting and shooting.It's also the law here.I can't carry openly or concealed but I can go hunting and target shooting any time I want.
It's good enough for me. :hatsoff:

 

[faw3]

a safty hunters course before we are allowed to go hunting ...we have the same thing here great idea since I was thought to be a deer in a org vest when I lived in NC by some guy 200yds away with a scoop 3 of us fireing back slugs from 12g's woke him up to his error real fast *thats back when most 12 to 15 yr olds went hunting alone. Happy you like your set up and Im happy with mine (kind of) Now on to better things. Fred :hatsoff: