Excessive Fouling

[Erwan]

What I do know from personal experience - if you hard pack the powder when you load - it will ignite a lot slower.
It may be from the inability to spread the fire or it may be like a piece of hardwood - you know how hard it is to get that stuff to burn.
I can't tell anyone WHY it happens - but I can tell them WHAT does happen.

I also observed this detail...
Being a simple guy with simple ideas, I always thought that the oxygen provided by nitrate (KN0³) was useful and necessary for combustion but did not provide enough oxygen, on the other hand too much KNO³ slows down ignition, and that it passed poorly between the overly packed powder grains and the little natural oxygen in the bulk powder that should be between the normally packed grains could no longer find its way...
Since then, I don't pack the powder too much: just the ramrod bouncing with a relatively clear sound two or three times and no more...
What made me think of this is that it is even more sensitive with flints than with percussion, and therefore the need to have a free and clean hole...

Food for thought....

 

[Brokennock]

Some people should check their own skin in the mirror when they post

 

[Erwan]

Some people should check their own skin in the mirror when they post

Sorry, I don't understand all the subtleties of the American mind, what is the meaning of this sentence....

 

[Dillon W.]

Sorry, I don't understand all the subtleties of the American mind, what is the meaning of this sentence....

Pay it no mind. There’s been more than enough senseless, rude, and inappropriate comments on this post. I normally regret asking questions on here. Everyone thinks their way is the only way and they’re the only ones that’s right. A simple question turns into a damn carnival of comments that are often uncalled for. I think I’ll leave this forum for good. But I certainly appreciate the good ones like Hanshi, grenadier, carbon6, grizzly44, britsmoothy, Bob McBride and a few others. They’re fantastic

 

[French Colonial]

OK
I will try this one more time without hurting any ones feelings if that's possible.
First my credentials I have been doing this since the 70's and am ranked a master class shooter with the NRA in another related rifle discipline.
When I say custom made that means a well known gunsmith put things together.
Guns
.32 caliber poor boy, Green Mountain barrel, flint
.50 caliber Chambers Virginia rifle custom made with whatever barrel Jim uses, flint
.54 caliber custom made Jaeger with Getz barrel, flint
.54 caliber custom made John Schriet rifle with Rice barrel, flint
.62 caliber custom made Caywood smooth bore with whatever barrel Danny uses, flint

I blow down the barrel, load with 2F, a spit patch for all of them with no short starter, usually bounce the hickory ram rod on the ball after seating, and have no problems with fouling.


Hope I did not offend any one......

 

[Britsmoothy]

Personally I don't bounce a rammer on the load at all.
I just push down on it.
As much as I enjoy cap and ball videos from Hungary I wince when I see him bouncing a brass rod off a ball or bullet! No way does that ball or bullet look like what it was prior!
It's just going to open the group and never tighten it!

 

[Grenadier1758]

I winced on a recent Mike Beliveau video when he bounced his ram rod several times on loading. He was hitting the steel silhouette target he was shooting at but bouncing the ramrod is not for me. A good firm pressure on the seated ball is my method.

 

[Bassdog1]

In my opinion many factors lead to fouling. Barrel condition being one and I am not saying heavily pitted barrel just barrels where minor rusting has occurred have been prone to foul more from my experience. I have several small bores that I shoot that when I first got back into this sport folks warned me that these would foul more often. I don't have as much of a loading problem with them as I do accuracy falls off after a few shots. I shoot a lot from a bench and up to around 6-8 shots I can shoot really small groups but after that the pattern starts to string out a bit and a group that I can cover with a 50 cent piece after 6 shots grows into twice that at 12 shots and gets larger as I continue but still no real problem loading the weapon. I have loaded and shot approximately 50 rounds without wiping in a single session. My new routine is to run a lightly damp spit patch every 4-5 shots then flip it over and back down and out. Accuracy stays very consistent. Not every gun and load combo works the same for everyone so try different methods till you find what works best. I pretty much only shoot 32 and 36 Cal TC Guns and this has what has worked best up to this point after trying different stuff for the last three years. Hope everyone is doing well and lets all stick together and keep enjoying our wonderful sport.

 

[Brokennock]

Sorry, I don't understand all the subtleties of the American mind, what is the meaning of this sentence....

Don't sweat it my friend.
It may have followed your reply but has nothing to do with it. It pertains several replies back to someone else.

 

[Okie Hog]

i don't swab between shots. If i obtain a rifle than requires swabbing between shots it soon goes away.

Slow twist barrels don't get as cruddy as quick twist barrels. Barrels with rounded grooves are easier to clean. i whang the range rod one time after seating the ball.

 

[Erwan]

Don't sweat it my friend.
It may have followed your reply but has nothing to do with it. It pertains several replies back to someone else.

Ok, sorry for the misunderstanding, I didn't see where was the prob. and so I was interrogative about the meaning of this answer.
There are many things that I don't understand straight at the right time, it comes from the language barrier and some American ready-made expressions. We have too that kind of expressions ready-made and this is sometimes causing mistakes in reading or interpretation...
I am not scratched by this accident.

Have a nice day.

 

[Grenadier1758]

i don't swab between shots. If i obtain a rifle than requires swabbing between shots it soon goes away.

Slow twist barrels don't get as cruddy as quick twist barrels. Barrels with rounded grooves are easier to clean. i whang the range rod one time after seating the ball.

I was shooting 95 grains of 1fg to push out my 0.715 patched ball from my Long Land Pattern Brown Bess. Can't get a much slower twist and I never saw so much fouling. It was easy to clean though.

 

[dave951]

Sorry, I don't understand all the subtleties of the American mind, what is the meaning of this sentence....

Neither do most Americans

 

[Erwan]

I was shooting 95 grains of 1fg

☹ 1Fg is almost gunpowder .....

 

[dave951]

My take on this entire fouling thing. The point we collectively miss is that muzzleloading covers a wide span of time and tech. I'd just about bet that what works in a matchlock, doesn't in a wheel lock and forget percussion. With that in mind, a solution to fouling and accuracy is most likely going to be pretty specific to a type of gun and won't apply to others. Another issue is the ease with which anybody can post something utoob and get a following. Doesn't mean they're correct or safe. Reenactors are among the worst offenders here.

With the above statements in mind, it's no wonder a book by a certain popular author on accuracy is so popular. It's nothing more than a treatise on controlling variables. It's just that simple. Past that, if you can't hit a barn from inside a horse stall, you ain't ever going to shoot accurately.

 

[flntlokr]

I don't know about bouncing the rod 8 times is necessary; I don't think there is any evidence that any number beyond 1 is necessary. The bounce is the indicator that your load is compacted to whatever degree, and ensures that there is no air gap. I use only wooden rods, and push the ball down with a series of short strokes. (if this is impossible or very difficult, your patch is too thick). When the load is pushed down as far as I can get it, I throw the rod from a few inches up only until it bounces. Sometimes first throw; sometimes it takes a couple. If more than a few are needed, for the next load, I use a super-wet patch, and push through the very last 'sticky' part slowly so that the wet has a chance to soften and remove the bit of fouling right at the top of the load height. (the tiny bit of moisture exposed to the powder will not affect anything). I don't have to swab between shots, as the entire barrel (with the exception of the 'chamber') gets cleaned for every shot. I use only detergent-and-water lube for range use.

 

[hanshi]

WOW! So many comments to respond to, so I'll respond to the most necessary ones. These are in answer to comments but in no particular order.

Yes
No
Maybe
Often
3 times
Wednesdays
Duck
I don't know
I DO know, or at least think I do
Wrong
Half right
AND FINALLY: mostly white but with a yellowish caste.

You're welcome!

 

[Griz44Mag]

WOW! So many comments to respond to, so I'll respond to the most necessary ones. These are in answer to comments but in no particular order.

Yes
No
Maybe
Often
3 times
Wednesdays
Duck
I don't know
I DO know, or at least think I do
Wrong
Half right
AND FINALLY: mostly white but with a yellowish caste.

You're welcome!

I now have all the answers - enlightenment has been achieved.....

(We can work on the questions later, maybe after a shot or two of Irish)

 

[Brokennock]

I now have all the answers - enlightenment has been achieved.....

(We can work on the questions later, maybe after a shot or two of Irish)

Only 1 or 2?

 

[11Bravo]

I think we can all agree the way we do things have changed over the decades. Yet some things remain the same, before the web we only had Muzzle Blasts, books and maybe an older friend for tips. Where I live it is a long drive to a range and that was only to work up a load for my rifle. In the early 70s I was a hunter only, I found paper hard to digest. I was only interested in the first pill out the barrel, so at the range I did wipe between each shot. For each ML I kept a sample target so I knew what my loading was for each one. The target shown is from around 1973 with my 45 Underhammer before I moved up to a 58 cal.
I do remember the real competition shooters were using a bath room scale to get the same pressure on the RR seating the ball.