Confused about measuring powder

[SteveKY]

Hello y'all. I have a Thompson Center .50 cal flintlock that my father built for me back in the early 80s. The gun has been stored properly all these years. I'd like to get it out and shoot again. I went by a local sporting shop and found out they don't carry black powder any longer??
So I have been doing some research and read that Pyrodex is a substitute. What I am confused about is the measuring of powder. If I used to shoot 100 gr of FF, would I measure the same 100 gr from my powder measurer?? Is there a different approach to measuring the newer types of powder??
Sorry for the Rip Van Winkle type questions but I really would like to get back in the sport.

Thanks in advance,
Steve

 

[Katahdin]

Set your measure for the same Volume as before and shoot it...if loading FFF (P) for FF(R/S) reduce the load by 10%,, that is right off the manufactures hand out.. some have problems getting Pyrodex to go off in a Flint lock,,, I shoot a cap 45 and 50 had no problems...

 

[Billnpatti]

You have a problem if you have a flintlock and cannot get anything but substitute powders. I know of no substitute powder that will work in a flintlock. At least, not with any reliability. All of the substitutes that I know of have a much higher ignition temperature than black powder and a flintlock simply cannot ignite it. Oh, you may get an occassional load to fire but you will have many more klatches than bangs. If you can get your hands on just one pound of black powder, you can use substitute powders in your flintlock if you will add about 10 grains of real black powder into your bore before loading a 10 grain reduced load of the substitute. This is called a duplex load. The black powder will ignite from the spark and set off the substitute powder. Of course you will have to put a bit (approx. 5 grains) of real black powder in your pan. Substitutes won't work there either.

The substitutes will work just fine in a caplock. But, I know that since your dad made the rifle and gave it to you, you won't want to get rid of it and replace it with a caplock. As I see it, you will have to find some real black powder, convert your flintlock to a caplock or just buy a caplock rifle to shoot substitute powders in. Sorry but that is just the way it is.

 

[mooman76]

By the way you measure Pyrodex the same as BP. 10 grains of BP in a volume measure is equal to 10 grains of Pyrodex. It is lighter but measures the same. That is on the container. And correct you cannot get Pyrodex to go off reliably in a flintlock. Like Bill said you can however prime 5 or 10 grains down the barrel first before the Pyrodex and prime the pan with real black and it will work. Pain in the butt yes but if you have a hard time getting the real stuff, it will work.
It would be best to order it or find a shop that does carry it.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Yep your going to need real black powder for a flintlock....make sure you thoroughly clean the gun before you shoot it ...as it has been sitting idle for all these years..no telling what's in there...

You also might want to brush up on how to properly clean a muzzleloader so you don't ruin it from improper cleaning.

 

[SteveKY]

Wow! Thank you all VERY much for the replies! Very interesting!! When you say put 10 gr in the barrel in front of the Pyrodex, could I use 10 gr of FFFF? It looks like subs don't work in the flash pan, but I think I found some sights to get some FFFF. This rifle is very special to me because my father built it, my grandfather hunted with it, and now I have inherited it.
Again, thank you very much!
Steve

 

[coloradoclyde]

When you say put 10 gr in the barrel in front of the Pyrodex, could I use 10 gr of FFFF?

NO! not recommended it will cause a pressure spike

"In front" also means that it goes in first so it is at the very bottom of the barrel....

With all seriousness I would just wait until you can obtain some 2f 0r 3f real black powder....instead of trying a duplex load.... Why make things more complicated than they need to be when you are just starting out?

You can order it through the Internet.

 

[mooman76]

Maybe someone in your area will chime in with a place you could buy some.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Spence is from Kentucky.... maybe he will chime in.
His blog is also required reading :grin: http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/

 

[Grizzly Adams]

A flintlock is not going to be reliable with substitutes, unless you prime with black and put ~5-10 grains of black down the bore before the pyrodex for better ignition.

Also, if your TC has a "compromise" 1-48" twist, 100 grains is a little stout with a roundball. The rifling is pretty shallow and the projectile may have a tendency to strip the rifling. My .50 capper likes 55 grains of pyro P and drives nails. May not be a bad idea to start there. :thumbsup:

 

[necchi]

When you say put 10 gr in the barrel in front of the Pyrodex, could I use 10 gr of FFFF?

NO! not recommended it will cause a pressure spike

Really? I don't think 10grns in a duplex load with Pyrodex would be that serious.

I'd recommend for the OP/SteveKY to go on up to the Flintlock section and read up or ask about duplex loads to get some real experienced info.

 

[jfaldo]

Why don't you just go to Powder Inc or Grafs and order a case of 2f of 3f or mix a case of different granulations. You want to get back to shooting this gun and that way you'll have plenty of powder to do it with. It never goes bad!

 

[Daveco]

Hello SteveKY!
Have you tried Paducah Shooter's Supply? I called down there about 2 or 3 months or so ago asking about black powder and was told at the time that they had it. Shooters is a 45 or 50 mile each way trip for me and I never got around to getting down there to pick any up though, and I ended up ordering some online. At the time I think the feller on the phone quoted Goex at about $23-24 a pound or so.
Good luck!

 

[Herb]

Hodgdon's "Basic Muzzleloading Manual" (free where they sell Pyrodex or Triple 7, or see on Hodgdon's web site) says about using Triple Seven and Pyrodex: "Flintlocks: to insure proper ignition in flintlock systems, 5 grains of FFFFG priming powder should be placed into the bore prior to loading the main charge of Triple Seven or Pyrodex...." I have shot many hundreds of such charges in flintlocks of .40, .45, .50, .54 and .58 caliber. Any black powder will work, 2F, 3F or 4F, both as the booster charge in the bore and in the pan. I usually use 3F or 2F, and only about 5 grains. This is entirely reliable.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Hodgdon's "Basic Muzzleloading Manual" (free where they sell Pyrodex or Triple 7, or see on Hodgdon's web site) says about using Triple Seven and Pyrodex: "Flintlocks: to insure proper ignition in flintlock systems, 5 grains of FFFFG priming powder should be placed into the bore prior to loading the main charge of Triple Seven or Pyrodex...." I have shot many hundreds of such charges in flintlocks of .40, .45, .50, .54 and .58 caliber. Any black powder will work, 2F, 3F or 4F, both as the booster charge in the bore and in the pan. I usually use 3F or 2F, and only about 5 grains. This is entirely reliable.

Well.... :shocked2: Pass the ketchup....I have a hat to eat.... :idunno: :hatsoff:

 

[necchi]

:haha: :wink:
I find "eating crow" is better if it's marinated in Coke overnight.
FWIW,, they do recommend 5grns and not 10.
:hatsoff:

To the OP;
It works better if,, after you drop those 5grns of true BP into the barrel,, give the rifle a few knocks with your palm down near the lock too settle the powder down into the flash channel a bit,, then dump the main charge of faux BP on top.

 

[William O.]

The 1:48 twist rate is not a "compromise" twist and is found in many muzzle loaders of the 18th century on up to the present.

 

[tenngun]

I have a few pounds of fake, to get a 70 grain charge I use a 20 grain under a 50 grain pryodex. I have chargers tied together. I will get flashes and hang fires with less kickers. I pound will make about 300 shots.

 

[smo]

Outdoor World in Nashville carries real black powder .I know it's a long way from Paducah but it's a start .Check your nearest Bass Pro or Cabellas. Welcome aboard :hatsoff:

 

[Don Steele]

Steve,
Congratulations on being the one to receive that rifle and for having the interest to get her back in action.
I can tell you want to get going ASAP...but, (since you asked) my personal recommendation is that you take a little more time and locate some real blackpowder. From where you are located, it shouldn't be that difficult. Some of the big outdoor retailers carry it, but you have to ask for it as it is not out on the shelves.
Worst case, it can be ordered and shipped. I'd be doing that before getting experimental with duplex loads, etc,etc.
AFTER you have achieved some experience and proficiency...those kind of suggestions might work just fine, but for a total newbie..I'm always going to suggest keeping everything as simple as possible.
Welcome, and we hope to hear more. :hatsoff: