Completely Unmarked Flintlock Pistol.

[Dstavlo]

Hello Gents,
I was wondering if you might be so kind as to provide me with a little guidance on the origins of this unmarked Flint Pistol I bought off Gunbroker a few years agod. I've attached some photos for your examination. The pistol is roughly .40 cal and completely unmarked save for a small number "2" engraved on the tang behind the screw (I couldn't get a good picture of it). I've reviewed all my reference material and checked with several local experts but nobody's seen anything quite like it. It seems to have some English influences in its overall profile but the nose cap and "square backed" trigger guard have me stumped. I've had the barrel and lock out and there are no marks to be found anywhere Have any of you seen anything similar to this? Any help would be immensely appreciated.

 

[phoenix511]

Interesting piece.

"Unmarked" are usually built somewhere in the middle east from material on-hand, and sometimes the maker may not understand the importance of the markings. If of European origin, there likely would be some markings, such as a name, number, or proof marks.

There are "replicas" from Turkey, Nepal, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and India, and they vary from crude to remarkably good quality. Some of the work is done with little more than files and a hand drill, sitting on a dirt floor while holding the work between knees.

Pieces such as yours are difficult to track to the place of origin as they are local copies of pieces made somewhere else. Wood can be analyzed for area of origin, but sometimes wood from packing crates or pallets are re-purposed locally, so the wood may be from thousands of miles away.

 

[Fernando Keilty]

Hello:

I think it's original, and not a copy of the East or India, the quality of the prints and wood carving. The knob head reminds me of the German guns. Number 2 could indicate a couple, like dueling pistols. It is very primitive, 18th century.

Affectionately. Fernando K

(Sorry for the translator)

 

[Dstavlo]

Thanks for the feedback. I had considered that it might of middle eastern origin, and I paged through Robert Elgood's FIREARMS OF THE ISLAMIC WORLD in search of something similar before coming to the conclusion that it just has too many European-Specific influences to be Middle Eastern-the shape of the butt, the European-style Rococo relief carvings and the beaver tail lock moldings.

Most 18th and 19th century Middle Eastern guns are quite distinct-looking and although there are some pictured in Elgood's book that were copied off of European guns, even those guns were embelished with stock inlays, heavy engraving or some other Middle Eastern Characteristic. This gun has none of those things.

I also share Elgood's opinion that the end of the 19th century brought an end to the finely crafted Middle Eastern Weaponry as all the muzzleloaders to have come out of the Middle East in the last 100 years are crude copies stocked in teak or some other type of dense, oily wood and roughly finished.

This pistol is certainly not one of the Mid. Eastern "tourist" guns. Its too well-built for that and its stocked in walnut. But I do know that a lack of proof marks rules out English, French, Belgium manufacture as these nations all had well established proof houses by the beginning of the 18th century.

I know that 18th Century American-built guns weren't proofed but this pistol is probably too highly decorated to be of American-manufacture, as all the American pistols I've seen are either crude restocks of European guns or "kentucky style".

Is it possible its Dutch-built? I believe I remember reading somewhere that the Dutch didn't require civilian firearms to be proofed until the early 19th century and seeing as how this pistol is .40 cal and not a larger military caliber, I believe it was most likely built for the civilian market.

Sorry for rambling, I've just been researching this gun for a long time.

 

[Dstavlo]

When were the first German Proof Houses established? Was it some time in the 18th century? I can't seem to find any definitive info on early German Proofs. Is it because there weren't any major early German proof houses? Is it possible that some of these early civilian guns "flew under the radar" and went unproofed? Or is it more likely that they sent them across the border to Liege for proofing?

 

[KABAR2]

I would say this is from one of the German states..... it is a well made pistol from the looks of it and as mentioned the "2" meant it is one of a pair by the style I would say meant as a holster pistol when on horse....It seems that many pistols and muskets from that area of the world were not maker marked or have proofs.... you've added a nice 18th century pistol to your collection :hatsoff:

 

[rickystl]

Hi Dstavlo.
Very nice - and interesting - pistol. Have to agree with Kabar2's assessment. Many of these made to order pistols for an Officer seem to go unmarked, and show a variety of cultures. Some notes:
1. .40 cal. seems a bit small for a horse pistol. But :idunno:
2. The lock lacks the pan-to-frizzen arm, possibly placing this pistol closer to the mid-18th Century.
3. The multiple barrel flutes are very attractive. This was a popular feature with Italian made guns. But Italians seem to mark their barrel in plain view on the top.
4. The square back type trigger guard is unusual for this type pistol in this time period. :hmm: But two other pistols I have seen with this style guard, and 18th Century, were both Italian made. But the engraving on the brass mounts does not look Italian. Just done in a generic fashion and good taste.

So, I'm back to Kabar2's assessment. :haha: My best guess would put this pistol maybe late 2nd Quarter, early 3rd Quarter of the 18th Century. It's a very nice piece with an interesting mix of features as these pistols were known for.

An interesting side note. I own a pre-1740 pistol from the same region, done in the French style, with a German style lock, and no markings - except a number "2" engraved at the breech of the barrel.

Thanks for posting. A nice addition to your collection. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[MacRob46]

What you have there is probably a Danish pistol from the mid-18th c. The style of trigger guard and the tear drop behind the lock molding and side plate are very much like a pair of Danish pistols illustrated in Claude Blair's Pistols of the World. I think that your pistol is too unusual, especially in terms of the trigger guard, to not have been made in the same Danish school or maybe by the same hand. The lack of a pan bridle is another characteristic but I am a bit mystified as to what the lock is not engraved, at least it does not appear to be engraved in your photos, given the decoration on the wood and the furniture. Maybe the lock is a later replacement. .40 caliber is very light, not only for a horse pistol but for any handgun of that age, given the need to shoot a larger ball for a more efficient kill in the shorter barrels with the less efficient powders. Until someone shows me why I am wrong, I am sticking to Danish provenance.

 

[Zonie]

Speaking if the book PISTOLS OF THE WORLD, the German made pistol (#202) has a similar square(ish) back trigger guard.
It also has a grip that I feel is more like the pistol in the OP than the Danish pistol shown in the book (# 210, 211 ?).

It's 1760(est) date puts it in the same mid 18th c. as the Danish guns.

 

[Dstavlo]

Thanks Ricky. The photos of the "2" on your pistol are nearly identical to the one on on mine. The style and size are very close. Perhaps this cryptic number was some sort of maker's or assembler's mark specific to a certain province or shop?

 

[Dstavlo]

Oh man, I've gotta get my hands on a copy of Pistols of the World! I'd love to get a look at some of those guns you guys mentioned. Danish sounds like a pretty likely guess, as the pistol has a lot of German influenced features.

 

[MacRob46]

You can probably get a copy from Amazon which is where I got mine. I looked at the German pistol but passed over it because the difference in barrel length did not allow me to compare the architecture of the longer stock on the pair of Danish guns. The Danish pistols, in many respects, more closely resemble the subject gun. Of course the triggers on both are different. The caliber of the German gun is closer to the subject but then the barrel is shorter and the pistol would be much lighter so who knows. It could be German or Danish but I lean toward Danish still.

 

[MacRob46]

The number might also indicate that this was pistol #2 of a pair.

 

[KABAR2]

What you have there is probably a Danish pistol from the mid-18th c. The style of trigger guard and the tear drop behind the lock molding and side plate are very much like a pair of Danish pistols illustrated in Claude Blair's Pistols of the World. I think that your pistol is too unusual, especially in terms of the trigger guard, to not have been made in the same Danish school or maybe by the same hand. The lack of a pan bridle is another characteristic but I am a bit mystified as to what the lock is not engraved, at least it does not appear to be engraved in your photos, given the decoration on the wood and the furniture. Maybe the lock is a later replacement. .40 caliber is very light, not only for a horse pistol but for any handgun of that age, given the need to shoot a larger ball for a more efficient kill in the shorter barrels with the less efficient powders. Until someone shows me why I am wrong, I am sticking to Danish provenance.

It might be Danish but they seemed to go for really strange looking side plates..... that side plate and engraving ..... it just doesn't say Danish.....

 

[MacRob46]

I don't know what the side plate says but the guns in the book have chiseled decoration on the barrels and the side plate is also chiseled, or perhaps cast - photo is not clear enough to tell. I still think it is likely to be Danish from the over all architecture. That is a pretty ornate side plate on the subject.

 

[cynthialee]

Maybe it is not a 2, but the letter L?

 

[rickystl]

Hi Dstavlo. Yes, the script is very close. Interesting. As mentioned above, I believe the 2 was one of a pair. Which makes sense since many of these pistols would be carried in pairs in frogs on horse back as their Military counterparts were.
The bigger mystery to me, with your pistol is the smallish .40 caliber. Do you have a photo of the muzzle?

Hi Mac. "Danish". That's the word I was trying to pull from the back of my brain. :haha: That's a good guess. In fact, both the topic pistol and mine could both be Dutch. :idunno: It's really hard to tell for sure. Of all this style pistols I seen and held, there are two common threads: 1. They are unmarked. 2. The style and mounts are all over the place. Nothing attributable to one Country/Location only. A real mix of German/French/Italian, etc. In fact, the pistol I own is a good example. It's generally done in the French style of the period, but with an early German style lock. And there are no markings on the gun (even under the barrel) except the "2" on the breech. Could be both these pistols came from the same Region? I guess these pistols were commissioned by Officers with whatever style/hardware suited their individual taste.

 

[Dstavlo]

That's a beautiful pistol Rick! Here's a shot of the muzzle. The breech is very thick and the whole barrel gradually tapers to a relatively thin muzzle. I mic'd the barrel. It's about .457 so more like a .45 cal

 

[Anders L]

It could be swedish, and my further guess is that it is a english style pistol from Jönköping. The mid 18th C gunsmiths in Jönköping favoured that kind of trigger guard. Most swedish guns is unmarked.

This one is made by Blekberg, one of the most important gunsmiths in Jönköping.

Another one:

 

[Stophel]

I'm late to the party, but yes, it's a German pistol... or at least "Germanic" (German, Dutch, Scandinavian... but probably German and probably not Scandinavian). Pistols are usually not as easily identified for specific region, because basic styles were widespread, and there's simply not that much to a pistol, and not much you can do differently! :haha:

I will also say that if that bore is only .45 caliber you must have extremely small hands!!!! Looks like it's closer to .60, which would be much more normal!