Charcoal

[russellshaffer]

The castboolits forum has a large powder making sticky at the top of their muzzleloading page.. Just saying.

 

[Semisane]

Thanks Russell, I wasn't aware of that.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

It would be great to be able to discuss our individual results, successes, failures, problems, solutions, etc.

You know you guys can start a PM (private message) and invite others to the discussion, right?

LD

 

[russellshaffer]

Didn't think of that. Guess that's why Dave is a moderator.

 

[4575wcf]

Count me in.

 

[J. Paul]

I use a 6 qt cast iron pot with a cast-iron lid. I drilled an 1/8" hole in the center of the lid close to the loop on top. I fill it with thumb size lengths, on end until it is full, using Willow from my yard that blew down a few years ago. I set that on top of my propane burner and cover that setup with another pot that sets over everything upside down to contain the heat. after I can no longer smell smoke (couple hours) I shut off heat then cover the hole in the lid and let it set until completely cool.

 

[azmntman]

No answer on the aspen? I can get alot of aspen. On willow does it matter if its weepeing willow or whatever. A few yards around have willows but not sure which species. They hand low etc. I could get some of this.

 

[Nav]

Willow for the win, at least where I am.

Here is the science (if anyone cares):
ANY pure wood charcoal works. It is the carbon that is essential. Everything else is a contaminate. Even activated charcoal made from coconuts will work (though it's almost the worst). The difference in the type of charcoal you use is really only determinative of how much fouling and waste it generates when it burns. Obviously, what we as MLs care about is cleanliness. Hard woods burn really dirty because they are made of way more polysaccharides (cellulose C6 H10 05), which is essentially (chemically speaking) a long chain sugar. Ever burned sugar? That's mostly a type of what you're swabbing out of your barrel.

The amount of cellulose in the charcoal is determinative. The more cellulose in the wood the higher the Janka hardness of the wood, and the more fouling it will generate.

Alder buckthorn (what's in Swiss) and willow are pretty darned soft for easily harvestable woods that will keep the fouling down, but people generally don't make anything from them because most of the time they're almost more of a bush without a good trunk to harvest for making things, so they don't end up on discussions of the hardness of woods (mostly done by woodworkers). For actual trees all you have to do is look at the Janka hardness to tell how much fouling it will generate:
https://www.wood-database.com/top-ten-softest-woods/
The softest woods have the least "sugar" in them, so they will make the cleanest charcoal. QED.
Balsa is expensive, and it makes an incredibly fluffy, dusty charcoal that when crushed is a hassle to work with, but it burns so clean you won't believe it. I don't know where alder buckthorn or willow is on the Janka scale, but it's probably at least above balsa and paulownia (the wood they make surfboards out of).

The charcoal choice is about clean burning only. That's why any will work for fireworks. It doesn't matter. For our purposes you may as well buy Swiss if you're going to try and make the best (cleanest) you can, because it almost costs about the same unless you have a stand of balsa or paulownia ($$$) on your land and can make better than store bought. I only have access to willow, and it works about the same as Alder Buckthorn. If you stay on that list (under a Janka of 350, meaning low cellulose woods) it won't be as clean as Swiss, but it won't be a fouley, cakey, mess either.

You know, this is 14th century technology. Ancient by any measure. I find it ironic that we can't talk directly about something so old, widely known, and well trod. That is a very sad commentary on the world under which we are living in today, and the palpable fear that our own government is doing all it can to instill in us. Fear begets fear, and that seems to be their business.
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -Thomas Jefferson
You know, the second amendment isn't in our Constitution for hunting or hobbies. It is specifically there as a check on power.
It use to be that we all operated under that maxim. I don't think we do anymore. Does that strike you as a something a just government, instituted to protect and defend our liberty, would do? It doesn't to me. Thomas Jefferson was right about so very much, and his words right true through history as if he said them yesterday.

 

[maillemaker]

I’m new to this, could I use a simple pine board from Lowe’s? Like a pine stud that’s been chunked up.

Poplar works well.

 

[maillemaker]

That's a new one for me JC. But you learn something every day. Can you "overcook" when making charcoal for our purpose? When I make charcoal I let it go well beyond the outgassing process. The completed product does not retain it's original shape, but kind of breaks itself up into smaller pieces.

I believe overcooking is probably one of the biggest problems of making good charcoal.

 

[Nav]

I'd rather overcook it and loose a little than undercook it. If it's undercooked it won't mill evenly and will leave little bits of wood. Overcooking it just makes ash and you get less. I cook it for about 10-15 minutes after it completely stops smoking, take it off the grill, and then I don't open it till it's cool to the touch.
The guy who does his in the oven is definitely a bachelor living way out in a cabin. Of all the bad smells I've generated I've never done anything like that!

 

[azmntman]

So aspen will work? Its what I would call a soft wood. I Burn it for heat and the ashs are way less than say Oak or whathev you. I may try some aspen

 

[Nav]

Quaking Aspen (what's predominately in the Rockies) is on the dirtier side of what makes a good product, but it will certainly work and won't be "bad". Far, far better than a hardwood.

 

[azmntman]

Cedar fence post better? Or whatever spcies of willow the guy down the street has?

 

[Nuthatch]

People overcomplicate it. I have a metal paint can with a 1/2" hole drilled in the lid. I fill it with ERC shavings (pet bedding from the local feed store), close up the lid & toss it on the campfire. Some time after seeing the flames stop coming out of the hole in the lid, I take it out of the fire & set it aside until morning, usually with a quarter, a rock or something else to slow the amount of air that gets back in as it cools. Chunks of fir from old lumber works just as well. Cedar (incense), redwood, pine... It all works. I prefer ERC just because it's good to use for my bee smoker and making charcoal. I bought a bale a year+ ago and still have 2/3 of that bale left. I doubt I shoot as much as many of you but I probably do more beekeeping than most.

As for fouling, I've had way more problems with Pyrodex fouling things up than black powder of any kind. I think the key for any kind of shooting is consistency. Whatever it is doesn't matter as much as that it is same every time.

 

[LME]

I have no need to make charcoal but I thought I would mention that if you are from the south and I don't know about the north? there is a ton of Willow trees on our riverbanks. It is not Weeping Willow.

 

[64Springer]

Willow for the win, at least where I am.

Here is the science (if anyone cares):
ANY pure wood charcoal works. It is the carbon that is essential. Everything else is a contaminate. Even activated charcoal made from coconuts will work (though it's almost the worst). The difference in the type of charcoal you use is really only determinative of how much fouling and waste it generates when it burns. Obviously, what we as MLs care about is cleanliness. Hard woods burn really dirty because they are made of way more polysaccharides (cellulose C6 H10 05), which is essentially (chemically speaking) a long chain sugar. Ever burned sugar? That's mostly a type of what you're swabbing out of your barrel.

The amount of cellulose in the charcoal is determinative. The more cellulose in the wood the higher the Janka hardness of the wood, and the more fouling it will generate.

Alder buckthorn (what's in Swiss) and willow are pretty darned soft for easily harvestable woods that will keep the fouling down, but people generally don't make anything from them because most of the time they're almost more of a bush without a good trunk to harvest for making things, so they don't end up on discussions of the hardness of woods (mostly done by woodworkers). For actual trees all you have to do is look at the Janka hardness to tell how much fouling it will generate:
https://www.wood-database.com/top-ten-softest-woods/
The softest woods have the least "sugar" in them, so they will make the cleanest charcoal. QED.
Balsa is expensive, and it makes an incredibly fluffy, dusty charcoal that when crushed is a hassle to work with, but it burns so clean you won't believe it. I don't know where alder buckthorn or willow is on the Janka scale, but it's probably at least above balsa and paulownia (the wood they make surfboards out of).

The charcoal choice is about clean burning only. That's why any will work for fireworks. It doesn't matter. For our purposes you may as well buy Swiss if you're going to try and make the best (cleanest) you can, because it almost costs about the same unless you have a stand of balsa or paulownia ($$$) on your land and can make better than store bought. I only have access to willow, and it works about the same as Alder Buckthorn. If you stay on that list (under a Janka of 350, meaning low cellulose woods) it won't be as clean as Swiss, but it won't be a fouley, cakey, mess either.

You know, this is 14th century technology. Ancient by any measure. I find it ironic that we can't talk directly about something so old, widely known, and well trod. That is a very sad commentary on the world under which we are living in today, and the palpable fear that our own government is doing all it can to instill in us. Fear begets fear, and that seems to be their business.
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -Thomas Jefferson
You know, the second amendment isn't in our Constitution for hunting or hobbies. It is specifically there as a check on power.
It use to be that we all operated under that maxim. I don't think we do anymore. Does that strike you as a something a just government, instituted to protect and defend our liberty, would do? It doesn't to me. Thomas Jefferson was right about so very much, and his words right true through history as if he said them yesterday.

Man, if all that came out of your brain, color me impressed.

 

[IanH]

Man, if all that came out of your brain, color me impressed.

I have a little different understanding of charcoal quality. It is NOT just a source of carbon, as evidenced by activated charcoal being a lousy fuel and velocity decreasing when charcoal is heated too much. The trick is to find a wood that provides only what you need, a minimum of whst you don't, and drive off only the volatiles required in the retort while preserving the creosotes etc for fuel.

Black willow (the kind that makes big trees in the south), Aspen, poplar, cottonwood, willow, all in the same family as I recall and make charcoal acceptable for most purposes including boot dressing.

Keep the interior temperature of the retort between 525 and 575⁰F to preserve the proper stuff in the wood. Hold it at that temperature until it ceases to smoke and you're done. It can be held in that temperature range indefinitely with no further "cooking" taking place, in other words it is excessive heat that causes overcooked charcoal, not excessive time alone. It's like fractional distilling, in fact exactly like it.

More to the original poster's question from two years ago, that is not really a meaningful test. One very important factor that determines the fouling level of BP is ash content of the wood, and this is simple to determine by weighing a toothpick-sized sample, burning it completely, and weighing the remains. 4%or less ash is your goal. That test alone is adequate to determine suitability of wood for a propellant fuel.

 

[Nav]

I guess we have to dance around this, but there is nothing in the chemical formula of pure BP that includes any of the byproducts and contaminants in wood.
The carbon IS the fuel. The sulfur burns too, but it’s mainly there to lower the ignition point so that a spark starts the reaction. The salt Peter (KN04), is actually the accelerant/oxidizer that makes it burn fast. Anything else in the wood charcoal that burns at a lower temperature is already gone when you cook it absent air. What’s left is not going to burn till much hotter. The more pure your source of carbon the faster AND cleaner it will burn. This isn’t my opinion. This is chemistry 101.

That may be true about the ash, but that’s going to be a function of both the amount of cellulose in the fuel, and the temperature at which you are burning. The residue after burning BP is the stuff that burns at a higher temperature/doesn’t burn completely, which is why I call it a contaminate.
Activated charcoal is far from pure carbon. Coconut shell is awful because it contains all sorts of contaminates and ultra high cellulose (even more than wood). That’s why it’s bad.

I only offer this as an explanation, because the answer is as so many have given is exactly right. Soft woods make better BP than hard ones. If you use anything harder than cedar you are going to make some nasty stuff that cakes in your barrel immediately. Try it and you’ll see, but it isn’t magic. It’s very simple science like you learned in HS.

 

[Piquant]

I found that cedar fence boards works very well. One 6 foot board make about 12 ounces of charcoal.