EN
36 Cal.
My son is still laughing. Thanks for the bright spot!!
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Can't cock percussion revolver
- Thread starter EN
- Start date
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EN,
Its not really any of my business, but I am wondering why you would Want to let the hammer down on a live cap.
Its not really any of my business, but I am wondering why you would Want to let the hammer down on a live cap.
THIS .....now sounds like a worn bolt leg cam at the bottom of your hammer near the screw hole, except for the "only when it's capped" part
if the leg slips over the cam prematurely due to excess wear, instead of raising the leg which drops the bolt from the cylinder.....it locks up the hammer AND cylinder.
if the leg slips over the cam prematurely due to excess wear, instead of raising the leg which drops the bolt from the cylinder.....it locks up the hammer AND cylinder.
EN
36 Cal.
If you decide not to fire the weapon and then let the hammer down slowly and then bring it to half cock would probably be the only reason.
EN
36 Cal.
My nephew just called me and said his Pietta does the exact same thing. I think I will work on the hand a little tomorrow cuz I am thinking more and more it is a timing problem. Just a little touch and try with a stone.
I don't believe it has anything to do with the hand. As other before have said I think the issue is with the cam on the hammer and the leg of the bolt that engages the cam.
Thanks EN,
Makes sense.
I am more familiar with Tranters, and never have used a Colt.
Makes sense.
I am more familiar with Tranters, and never have used a Colt.
EN
36 Cal.
I think I am gonna haf ta eat this elephant one bite at a time. You all have valid thoughts on this and when I discover what works I will let you all know as soon as it happens. Thanks again for your help.
My replica Colt 1848 Pocket Pistol thanks you. 
Except for my Walker and 3rd model Dragoon, it is the only Colt I have since a bugler stole my pistol collection.
Anyway, I cycled thru the full cock, drop the hammer almost but not fully down on the nipple and found that it too locks up and can't be cocked until the hammer is allowed to fall further down toward the nipple.
While the hammer is falling, when it is about 1/4" from the nipple I hear a click. Once heard, the hammer is in the "zone of no re-cocking".
As the hammer continues to fall, in this last 1/4" zone I hear a another "click" just before the hammer hits the nipple.
Once this last click is heard, the hammer can be freely cocked.
Having discovered this, I tried it on my replica Colt Walker and 3rd model Dragoon.
They both did the same thing.
Curious, I tried this test on my Whitney revolver.
It too had a similar zone with the hammer about 1/4" above the nipple. Once entered, the hammer could not be recocked until it had fallen almost (but not quite) down to the nipple.
This Whitney has the same basic lockworks as a Remington so I would expect them to also act this way.
For those curious, yes, the cylinder bolt locks the cylinder before the hammer reaches full cock and it remains locked all the way thru the hammer fall. The bolt does not release the cylinder until the hammer starts to be recocked.
Based on my findings, I don't think there is a thing wrong with your pistol.
It is behaving just like other Colt pistols do.
My suggestion at this time is: Don't place a cap on the nipple and lower the hammer down to the point that it rests on the cap.
If you want to drop the hammer from full cock to half cock, release the trigger as you lower the hammer and it will go into half cock for safety reasons.
The half cock notch will keep the hammer above this "point of no return" so you can freely recock the gun as needed.
Oh.
Why is my pistol happy?
I noticed that it is the only "commercial" Colt I have that I never silver plated so today, I silver plated the trigger guard and the grip back strap.
It looks much better.
Silver plate?
Yes. Except for the military pistols and the London pistols, all of the commercial Colts had brass trigger guards and back straps and these were always silver plated.
I think Colt felt it gave a bit of class to his pistols. :grin:
Except for my Walker and 3rd model Dragoon, it is the only Colt I have since a bugler stole my pistol collection.
Anyway, I cycled thru the full cock, drop the hammer almost but not fully down on the nipple and found that it too locks up and can't be cocked until the hammer is allowed to fall further down toward the nipple.
While the hammer is falling, when it is about 1/4" from the nipple I hear a click. Once heard, the hammer is in the "zone of no re-cocking".
As the hammer continues to fall, in this last 1/4" zone I hear a another "click" just before the hammer hits the nipple.
Once this last click is heard, the hammer can be freely cocked.
Having discovered this, I tried it on my replica Colt Walker and 3rd model Dragoon.
They both did the same thing.
Curious, I tried this test on my Whitney revolver.
It too had a similar zone with the hammer about 1/4" above the nipple. Once entered, the hammer could not be recocked until it had fallen almost (but not quite) down to the nipple.
This Whitney has the same basic lockworks as a Remington so I would expect them to also act this way.
For those curious, yes, the cylinder bolt locks the cylinder before the hammer reaches full cock and it remains locked all the way thru the hammer fall. The bolt does not release the cylinder until the hammer starts to be recocked.
Based on my findings, I don't think there is a thing wrong with your pistol.
It is behaving just like other Colt pistols do.
My suggestion at this time is: Don't place a cap on the nipple and lower the hammer down to the point that it rests on the cap.
If you want to drop the hammer from full cock to half cock, release the trigger as you lower the hammer and it will go into half cock for safety reasons.
The half cock notch will keep the hammer above this "point of no return" so you can freely recock the gun as needed.
Oh.
Why is my pistol happy?
I noticed that it is the only "commercial" Colt I have that I never silver plated so today, I silver plated the trigger guard and the grip back strap.
It looks much better.
Silver plate?
Yes. Except for the military pistols and the London pistols, all of the commercial Colts had brass trigger guards and back straps and these were always silver plated.
I think Colt felt it gave a bit of class to his pistols. :grin:
EN
36 Cal.
Then that means that my Uberti '51 Navy is the odd ball. It does not have that "feature". I guess I might just enjoy the ASM the way it is and take care when lowering the hammer. Thanks Zonie.
My Uberti Navy does like Zonie described. I just tried it, and although it's not an instinctive thing to do, it will do just that.
I had a Colt Navy from Colt back in the 70s, the new (then) silver plated pistol on the handle. I don't think I ever shot it and traded it for a Remington Rolling Block in 7mm Mauser. BP was impossible to get where I lived back then which is why I never fired it. Wish I had it still.
I had a Colt Navy from Colt back in the 70s, the new (then) silver plated pistol on the handle. I don't think I ever shot it and traded it for a Remington Rolling Block in 7mm Mauser. BP was impossible to get where I lived back then which is why I never fired it. Wish I had it still.
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Good observation on Zonie's part. To describe what is happening here. When you lower the hammer to the point of no return what has happened is that the hand has gone under the next tooth of the cylinder star but the bolt leg has not snapped over the cam on the hammer so trying to cock it at this point the hand is trying to rotate the cylinder with the bolt still in place. A no go until the hammer falls further and the bolt leg snaps over the cam. In a perfect situation with caps that actually fit the nipples this shouldn't happen but it probably is not worth the irritation to correct it. As Zonie said on the rare occasion it is necessary to lower the hammer on a capped cylinder just go to half cock.
You should NOT be lowering the hammer on a capped nipple. The original Colts had pins between the nipples and the grove in the hammer face fit into one of these pins to hold the cylinder in place.
Unfortunately the less expensive replicas omit these pins or some may have just one pin.
If you lower the hammer on a capped nipple you may be having a lock up issue. Try lowering the hammer HALF WAY between the nipples. Probably will solve the problem.
Unfortunately the less expensive replicas omit these pins or some may have just one pin.
If you lower the hammer on a capped nipple you may be having a lock up issue. Try lowering the hammer HALF WAY between the nipples. Probably will solve the problem.
EN
36 Cal.
Hard to do from the full cock. Cyl won't budge.
He didn't say turn the cylinder at full cock.EN said:
He said;
Your going to have to use your off hand to turn the cylinder while your lowering the hammer just like they did with the originals. Lower the hammer until the pawl releases the cylinder,, then turn it.crockett said:
It's an old school basic operation single action revolver,, you have to participate with it's mechanics,, heck, even new revolvers require assistance to achieve the cylinder location desired by the operator.
EN said:
I assume you're being sarcastic here...of course the cylinder won't rotate at full cock. It's not supposed to. It will rotate at half cock.
EN
36 Cal.
The problem was lowering the hammer from the full cock position, not letting the hammer down from any other position. If you decide not to shoot the gun from the full cock position, it is common practice to let the hammer down then put it into half cock so the cyl. can be rotated. Then of course you can let the hammer down between the chambers. I am well aware of the pins between the chambers but at least with my revolver I cannot lower the hammer onto one of these pins from the full cock position which was the original problem. The hammer would not go to half cock. Zonie was kind enough to actually try it and his hammer also became stuck. He explained it very well why it was happening.
You are correct.
If you lower the hammer from full cock directly to the half cock position, the cylinder bolt is still locking the cylinder so, the cylinder can't be rotated.
Once this is done, the hammer can be returned to full cock but it it will still be aligned with the same chamber it was lined up with before dropping the hammer to the half cock position.
I mentioned a couple of clicking sounds as the hammer is falling during the last 1/2 inch or so just before the hammer stops on the nipple.
After studying my 1849 I can say what those sounds are and how they affect the gun.
If the hammer is lowered from the full cock position directly to the half cock position there are no sounds. The cylinder hand has moved downward but it is still in the same ratchet notch as it was at full cock. The cylinder bolt continues to lock the cylinder.
Lowering the hammer further, below the half cock towards the fired position, a click is heard as the cylinder hand falls into the next ratchet notch.
The cylinder bolt is still locking the cylinder.
It's when the gun is in this condition that trying to re-cock the hammer cannot be done.
With the cylinder still locked by the bolt and the hand in the next ratchet notch trying to rotate the cylinder everything is locked up.
Just as the hammer is allowed to drop down, right before it reaches the nipple, another click is heard.
This sound is the flexible leg on the bolt snapping over the cam that is located on the bottom of the hammer, down in the lock-works.
The cylinder bolt is still locking the cylinder and the cylinder hand is far below the cylinder ratchet tooth.
(This is the point that is causing EN's problem.
Because the thickness of the cap and its priming is keeping the hammer from falling this far, the cam and bolt leg is not reaching this point so the bolt will not be retracted from its engagement with the cylinder.)
As the hammer is raised to re-cock the gun, the cylinder hand starts moving up to rotate the cylinder but before it reaches the ratchet tooth the hammer cam catches on the bolt leg and lowers the cylinder locking bolt.
With the bolt now free from the cylinder, raising the hammer further pushes the cylinder hand into the ratchet tooth and the cylinder rotates.
And as a famous radio host used to say, "And now, you know the rest of the story." :grin:
If you lower the hammer from full cock directly to the half cock position, the cylinder bolt is still locking the cylinder so, the cylinder can't be rotated.
Once this is done, the hammer can be returned to full cock but it it will still be aligned with the same chamber it was lined up with before dropping the hammer to the half cock position.
I mentioned a couple of clicking sounds as the hammer is falling during the last 1/2 inch or so just before the hammer stops on the nipple.
After studying my 1849 I can say what those sounds are and how they affect the gun.
If the hammer is lowered from the full cock position directly to the half cock position there are no sounds. The cylinder hand has moved downward but it is still in the same ratchet notch as it was at full cock. The cylinder bolt continues to lock the cylinder.
Lowering the hammer further, below the half cock towards the fired position, a click is heard as the cylinder hand falls into the next ratchet notch.
The cylinder bolt is still locking the cylinder.
It's when the gun is in this condition that trying to re-cock the hammer cannot be done.
With the cylinder still locked by the bolt and the hand in the next ratchet notch trying to rotate the cylinder everything is locked up.
Just as the hammer is allowed to drop down, right before it reaches the nipple, another click is heard.
This sound is the flexible leg on the bolt snapping over the cam that is located on the bottom of the hammer, down in the lock-works.
The cylinder bolt is still locking the cylinder and the cylinder hand is far below the cylinder ratchet tooth.
(This is the point that is causing EN's problem.
Because the thickness of the cap and its priming is keeping the hammer from falling this far, the cam and bolt leg is not reaching this point so the bolt will not be retracted from its engagement with the cylinder.)
As the hammer is raised to re-cock the gun, the cylinder hand starts moving up to rotate the cylinder but before it reaches the ratchet tooth the hammer cam catches on the bolt leg and lowers the cylinder locking bolt.
With the bolt now free from the cylinder, raising the hammer further pushes the cylinder hand into the ratchet tooth and the cylinder rotates.
And as a famous radio host used to say, "And now, you know the rest of the story." :grin:
EN
36 Cal.
Thanks Zonie. Your explanation was spot on. Thanks again.
Well how would you fix the problem? A new bolt, or bend the leg on the bolt? The bolt ought to drop almost immediately when you start cocking the hammer. This is hard to tell on a percussion because the frame is curved, you could slid a piece of paper between the frame and cylinder to determine exactly when the bolt is dropping. Off hand you would think the cam is okay. So, the tail on the bolt?
