Can't cock percussion revolver

[EN]

I have a 51 Navy that when I put caps on the nipples (making sure they were seated all the way by pushing with a wood dowel) the cylinder would drag a bit. The nipples were screwed down all the way. So with an unloaded cylinder I cocked the gun with caps in place and slowly let the hammer down on a capped nipple trying to determine which cyl. was the culprit. When I tried to cock it again it would not budge. Had to take the barrel off and re position the cylinder. I thought it might just be the Navy so I tried it with an Army and the same thing happened. I would never carry the gun like that so this is the first time this has happened. I don't know if it is just the Colt that does this or does the Remington also do this. Thanks for your time.

 

[necchi]

Sounds like you have the barrel wedge driven in too far.
The clip on the wedge is not there to be forced to the outside of the frame when installed,, it's actually there to keep the wedge from falling out when the barrel is removed.

 

[EN]

The wedge had to be moved almost all the way out of the barrel before the cylinder would rotate. I tapped the wedge out in small increments until the cyl. would finally rotate. I don't think it is supposed to be sticking out that far. On the Army, the wedge can't be in too far or nothing works.

 

[necchi]

Ok EN, I sometimes ain't a good explainer.
Somebody please help explain cylinder gap here.
Folks with better skills will be along soon EN, :v

 

[EN]

Just tried the same thing with an unfired Uberti '51 Navy. No problem. Minimal cyl. gap.(any closer and it is touching the barrel. I appreciate your help. The other Navy is an Armi San Marco. Cyl. gap is also minimal.

 

[Larry Akers]

I would be willing to bet the family farm the cylinder spindle is too short. It should bottom out in its recess under the barrel and leave about .004" gap between the rear of the barrel and the face of the cylinder when the wedge is driven in. You need to add a spacer to the end of the spindle (or in the bottom of the recess)to create that gap. Once established it will be very repeatable as the wedge cannot be driven in too far.

 

[Redstick Lee]

did you buy this revolver new?
is there ANY chance that it's a Pietta or Uberti cylinder in a A.S.M. frame? all 3 are different lengths.

if not then it can be shimmed, or have the arbor reset by a gunsmith.

 

[MSW]

I would be willing to bet the family farm the cylinder spindle is too short. It should bottom out in its recess under the barrel and leave about .004" gap between the rear of the barrel and the face of the cylinder when the wedge is driven in. You need to add a spacer to the end of the spindle (or in the bottom of the recess)to create that gap. Once established it will be very repeatable as the wedge cannot be driven in too far.

by way of reference, the average piece of photocopy paper (the stuff you put in your printer) is about three point, or .003 inches. If you don't have a set of feeler gauges, this will do for a rough approximation.

you can get away with a slightly larger gap, but smaller won't do.

Also, be sure to wipe everything down after a dozen or so shots. If you let fouling build up and you force the it, you will damage the internals and cause the revolver to go out of time.


good luck with your project, and I hope that soon you will be able to Make Good Smoke!

 

[EN]

I got the gun used. It always shot very well and I never had the occasion to let the hammer down on a live cap until recently. I am going to take others advice and take it to a smith. The fixes are beyond my expertise. Thanks for the input!

 

[EN]

The gun was clean when I discovered this problem. I have no problem with timing as every cyl. locks up nice. Think a visit to the gunsmith will be in order.

 

[EN]

That may very well explain the problem. I am going to have a smithy check it out. I really like the gun and if push comes to shove I just won't let the hammer down on a live cap. Thanks a bunch for your help.

 

[Zonie]

Unless your gunsmith has experiance with the Colt C&B pistol, he may know know a few things that are important here.

Smiths usually don't like a customer telling them what to do but here are a few things I think he should know.

Ӣ To remove the barrel, set the hammer at half cock, revolve the cylinder until a web between the chambers lines up with the loading lever ram and use the loading lever to drive or jack the barrel off of the cylinder arbor. Do not try to drive the barrel off using any other method.

ӢThe wedge should not be driven into the barrel to the point that the small spring latches on the far side. Only the very tip of the wedge should protrude when the wedge is fully installed.

Ӣ With the wedge installed, the barrel must bottom out on the front or nose of the cylinder arbor.
This positions the barrel to prevent the wedge from driving it too far back.**

Ӣ The cylinder pawl hand spring will push the cylinder forward until it stops on the rear of the barrel. Only light finger pressure should move the cylinder back so there is at least a .004-.005 gap (minimum) between the face of the cylinder and the rear of the barrel.

Ӣ With the cylinder pushed rearward, the cylinder gap may be as much as .010 without causing problems but less is better provided the .004 gap minimum exists.

The suggested values are my own and others may disagree with them.

** The problem appears to be that the length of the cylinder arbor is too short.
If this is the problem, this can be corrected by adding a shim of the proper thickness to the end of the cylinder arbor or to the bottom of the barrels arbor hole.

 

[EN]

Thanks Zonie, I will ask him if he is well versed in this type of weapon and if he has any integrity he will let me know whether or not he can handle this. If he needs that info from you I will pass it along to him. Thanks a bunch.

 

[Phil Coffins]

If the pistol functions properly with out caps or when you fire the caps in a normal manner then the bolt isn’t going over the cam on the hammer. Very slight adjustments are in order.
As has been pointed out start with the arbor fit.

 

[Zonie]

Something's bothering me about this problem.

You say the problem has only come up when the nipples have caps on them?

A couple of things can cause that to happen.

If the nipples are rifle nipples they will be a lot longer than the nipples made for pistols.

From the shoulder on the nipple that tightens against the sealing surface on the back of the cylinder to the top end of the cone you put the cap on should measure about .270". That's about 1/64" larger than 1/4 inch.

If a rifle nipple has been installed, it will measure about .445" which is a shade greater than 7/16".

With this large of difference between pistol nipples and rifle nipples, it's easy to see why a rifle nipple in a pistol cylinder will stick out of the back of the cylinder far enough to rub against the guns recoil shield. Especially if a cap has been placed on the nipple.

Try to measure the length of one of the nipples in your pistol and let us know what you find.

Another thing that can cause a capped nipple to hang up on the recoil shield of the pistol happens to brass framed revolvers.

If the gun has a brass frame and heavy loads have been fired in it, several people have reported that the ratchet star on the rear of the cylinder has embedded itself in the brass frame.

If your pistol frame is brass, remove the cylinder and look at the frame right next to the place where the cylinder rotating hand exists.

If you see the impression of the cylinders ratchet in the brass material and if the impression is very deep, that is allowing the cylinder to move aft far enough to cause the caps on the nipples to hang up on the recoil shield (usually in the slot that the hammer falls thru.) even when the correct pistol length nipples are used.

If this is the cause, I'm sorry to say it isn't easy to make a long term fix to the problem.

A short term fix would be to fill the ratchet impressions with some sort of strong epoxy but because the cylinder recoils against this area each time the gun is fired, it won't take long for the cylinder ratchet to pound the epoxy out of the recesses.

 

[EN]

The nipple measures .275. It is a steel frame and I don't have a problem with the caps hanging up on the frame. Just when I let the hammer down on a live cap on the nipple. When I try to recock the gun the hammer won't budge. No problem after firing or when there is no unfired cap on the nipple.

 

[Adui]

So if I am understanding you correctly; you cap the nipples, Cock the revolover, and then choose not to fire it so then lower the hammer gently onto the capped nipple?

I'm far from an expert but if that is what is happening, I wonder if its a timing issue and the hammer is not lowering enough when gently lowered onto a capped nipple to reset the bolt mechanism. Therefore; when you try to recock it the bolt is not being disengaged from the cylinder thus locking the action up.
:idunno: Its been far too long since I played with the inner workings of a colt revolver, but it sounds like that is whats happening.

 

[EN]

A .010 gauge will not slide in after pushing back the cyl. The pistol is accurate and it appears as though this peculiarity may have more than one fix.

 

[EN]

That makes perfect sense. It is as though the hand keeps ramming against the cyl. However the when I cock it normally everything seems to lock up with no need to "click" it in.

 

[Stumpkiller]

If it is a Pietta it may be a safety feature so you don't accidentally shoot it. Like by loading it, pointing it and pulling the trigger.

I am NOT impressed with my Pietta. As the metal bends and wears in the mechanism it comes up with surprises all the time.