Ball seating question?

[FishDFly]

I would suggest you are seating the ball correctly. In this game, it seems, everyone has their own way of seating. I know the repeated bouncing of the rod off the ball is common. I think that is stupid and unnecessary. The name of this game for both safety and accuracy is consistency. Like you, I seat then put a small "umph" amount of pressure on the ball. Necessary? I dunno but that's the way I do it. BTW, too much "umph" will crush powder and cause pressure increases when you shoot. Not helpful. Carry on and enjoy.

Walter Cline's book is in agreement.

 

[Carbon 6]

What! no direct quote from Walt ?

 

[Kansas Jake]

I don't seat the ball in one push because it is hard to grasp the ramrod in 8-10 inches above the muzzle and push it down without re-grasping, but I understand what folks mean. Grasping a wood rod far enough up to push the ball home all at once could result in a broken rod and a speared hand. I don't even do that with my metal rod until there is only about a foot left until seated. When the ball is seated, I just push once more on the range rod to make sure it is all the way down. I don't bounce the rod. I may have done that years ago, but prefer to feel if it is seated with a solid push. Each to your own as long as you are safe.

 

[FishDFly]

What! no direct quote from Walt ?

I will later today.

 

[FishDFly]

Okay from Walter M. Cline: The M/L Loading Rifle, Then and Now.

Pressure required to seat the ball down on the powder, i.e., must be the same each time.

"The tightness of the bullet and patch should require from 18 to 20 pounds to seat the bullet down on the powder and the patch should fill the groves".

Ah, how do you learn to measure 20 pounds you are going to ask, it's easy.

Find one of the old analog bathroom scales which is spring loaded. Place the scale between your feet and using your range rod, push down on the scale until you reach 20 pounds and repeat until you think you have it mastered, measuring the pressure at 20 pounds.

Now ,close you eyes and push down on the range rod, open your eyes and see how many pounds are registered on the scale. Continue the process until you can do it (20 pounds) with your eyes closed. This is the pressure that you want on the ball when it is seated over the powder.

 

[Juice Jaws]

Most of this seems like over thinking, I just ram the ball with one motion onto the powder. Works for me.

 

[Griz44Mag]

There is one thing I can honestly say..
"I have never taken a bathroom scale with me when I went to the range"....

 

[Carbon 6]

Okay from Walter M. Cline: The M/L Loading Rifle, Then and Now.

Pressure required to seat the ball down on the powder, i.e., must be the same each time.

"The tightness of the bullet and patch should require from 18 to 20 pounds to seat the bullet down on the powder and the patch should fill the groves".

Ah, how do you learn to measure 20 pounds you are going to ask, it's easy.

Find one of the old analog bathroom scales which is spring loaded. Place the scale between your feet and using your range rod, push down on the scale until you reach 20 pounds and repeat until you think you have it mastered, measuring the pressure at 20 pounds.

Now ,close you eyes and push down on the range rod, open your eyes and see how many pounds are registered on the scale. Continue the process until you can do it (20 pounds) with your eyes closed. This is the pressure that you want on the ball when it is seated over the powder.

Thanks, that validates what I've been saying and says nothing about crushing powder or pressure spikes when shooting. ( a myth)

I am curious how he arrived at 20 pounds of pressure though. I would think that would vary depending on caliber, projectile, and powder. 20 ponds of pushing force won't be the same on the ball for a .32 cal as it will for a .72 cal. the force on the 72 cal will be less. (maybe Zonie will explain the math)

Lots of people load using different methods including bouncing the ramrod, I have yet to see a clear pattern of detriment from doing so. I think consistency is more important than the method (within reason) and Cline seems to agree.

 

[FishDFly]

Thanks, that validates what I've been saying and says nothing about crushing powder or pressure spikes when shooting. ( a myth)

I am curious how he arrived at 20 pounds of pressure though. I would think that would vary depending on caliber, projectile, and powder. 20 ponds of pushing force won't be the same on the ball for a .32 cal as it will for a .72 cal. the force on the 72 cal will be less. (maybe Zonie will explain the math)

Lots of people load using different methods including bouncing the ramrod, I have yet to see a clear pattern of detriment from doing so. I think consistency is more important than the method (within reason) and Cline seems to agree.

The rest of the story: "We arrived at this by unbreeching the barrel, then pushing a patched bullet through until the imprint of the grooves on the patch showed that it was filling them to the bottom".

As far as how much powder, "The old rule---"one-fourth the weight of the ball in powder --is still a good one to go by".

 

[Carbon 6]

The rest of the story: "We arrived at this by unbreeching the barrel, then pushing a patched bullet through until the imprint of the grooves on the patch showed that it was filling them to the bottom".

As far as how much powder, "The old rule---"one-fourth the weight of the ball in powder --is still a good one to go by".

Ok, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I can achieve the same results by bouncing the rod. once the grooves have been filled the ball can go no further. a good rod bouncer can easily tell this.

Still no mention of crushed powder. Is there more to the story ?

 

[necchi]

There is one thing I can honestly say..
"I have never taken a bathroom scale with me when I went to the range"....

I wasn't at a sanctioned range,, we were on in his deck, just outside the kitchen slider,, shooting into his back 40,, with the women just behind us having a few beers an slow cooking chicken on the grill.
The kids where in the front yard playing.
An just before we sat down, yonder come his brother Jack and his other brother Bill.
Didn't need no "range"

 

[Carbon 6]

Didn't need no "range"

Or a scale, unless that deck has a weight limit.

 

[Jamie from Alberta]

Thanks for all the replies fellas.
I failed to mention that my ramrod is marked too.
I keep it as consistent as I can each time.

 

[Scota4570]

I use a T-handle steel range rod. I seat until I feel the powder. I then add about 20# extra pressure. I can usually feel the powder crunch a bit.

I would say that if your load is so tight that you need to wang the ball with the rod to seat it then the load is too tight. IF the chamber so crudded up, as to prevent fully seating the ball, then clean it.

Beating the ball to death will definitely hurt accuracy. If ones accuracy expectations are low it probably won't matter.

 

[Carbon 6]

I suppose there are some guys who "wang" the ball and ramrod as if they were driving in fence posts.
Any method used can be done incorrectly. The key is to do it correctly.

 

[Jack Ryan]

I just push the ball down until it STOPS. Then I look at my rod and if it is on the mark, it is done. If not, I put the ball from my ball starter on the rod like a handle and give it another little shove until it stops again. Check the mark and it is always on the mark this time.

Crimoney people this isn't that difficult. Freaking people who marked their name with an X could figure this out 200-300 years ago.

 

[Carbon 6]

Crimoney people this isn't that difficult. Freaking people who marked their name with an X could figure this out 200-300 years ago.

I haven't seen any historical evidence that marking ramrods was common practice. In fact, I think I remember reading that soldiers were advised to bounce the rod.

 

[Billy Boy]

When I was able to store/use black i compressed more than I do now with the replicas. Their grain size (pyro) seems much more consistant and so, less air space in a load. If i compress these wanna be powders too much i get some miss fires or slower boom time. This is with percussion guns and rifles. Just another twisted observation from the frozen North....

 

[Rifleman1776]

I am curious how he arrived at 20 pounds of pressure though.

20 pounds is equivalent to one small "umph". Geez, everyone knows that.

 

[Carbon 6]

20 pounds is equivalent to one small "umph". Geez, everyone knows that.

Ya I know, it also equates to 3 light throws of a rod. I was waiting to see who knew that. Congratulations,